Run Defense
- Thread starter screwduke
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Since it has not been good for years I don't expect it to be good. However, it might improve. I think we are getting the necessary talent, but depth/experience can be a concern. Elam can be a force in the middle, but he really needs to lose bad weight and gain good weight. He's probably done this to some degree. How well he did this will determine a lot of success. It's been said that we will play a 3-4. That means that our d-line has to eat up offensive linemen, not get pushed back, and allow the linebackers to react and fill holes to stop the run. We got blown off the line a lot last year. That has to change in order for us to be successful. I like the guys we have in the middle and I like our linebackers so you have to at least like that our line will be improved at stopping the run. Still might not be good, but here's to hoping they surprise us and make me eat these words.
Last game of the year it was excellent...problem is we lost two pieces as to why it was excellent (Dupree/Smith)
Coaches seem more confident in the overall DL and LBs though than they did last year, so I will trust them.
Coaches seem more confident in the overall DL and LBs though than they did last year, so I will trust them.
I believe it will improve. I really like Lewis and I'm expecting big things from him this year. I like Johnson a lot as well and feel like he is going to have a breakout year. Meant will be much improved. I'm excited to see what the redshirts and new guys bring to the table as well (Dubose, Middleton, Daniel, Ware, etc.) I don't think Elam will break this defensive line but he could elevate it to another level if he puts in the work and becomes close to what we all expect him to become.
I like the middle with the DTs because we have real quality depth there......Beyond that, you have to wonder if we have SEC quality LBs. That is yet to be seen. Forrest is rangy, but is he a run stopper? Flannigan should be better....Beyond that you've got a bunch of Freshmen and possibly Love who has never played a down in the SEC. Z and Dupree will be missed.. We don't have anyone at that level on the Ends/hybrid. I'd say we slightly improve just because the middle DL should be stout.
I think we'll see improvement across the board. Offense passing, offense running, defense run stop, defense pass pro, special teams. The question is how much?
I think we will be better against most rushes.......but a few teams like Georgia (who has some really, really good RB's) we will still struggle.
I think we will be better against most rushes.......but a few teams like Georgia (who has some really, really good RB's) we will still struggle.
Apparently the only part of our defense that did not see a lot of improvement (despite losing Bud and Z), was our CBs. Interior defense improved, pass rushing seems better, safeties playing better, etc.
CBs are the only ones who need to improve me. That said, barring a couple of games last season, they were in the top 15 in pass defense efficiency in the country. With the added depth coming in, and some practice, I only see them getting better. We'll have at least one freshman coming in who will start, and it will likely be Derrick Baity.
Yes, I believe the run defense is going to be improved. Not just improvement from talent and maturity and physical development of the players, which has occurred, but the changes Stoops made in the defensive coaching side of his staff. Andy Buh focusing on our outside linebackers frees up better individual instruction for our inside backers and interior D linemen. Stoops pitching in on the secondary is going to benefit the entire defensive play as well IMO.
Yes, because we are better and deeper in our defensive interior. Losing Bud and Z will hurt us on the edge, but this can be offset by better play from our outside linebackers, corners, and safeties. I actually think our defense will be a lot better this year, because it is so much deeper.
I think it's going to improve. Basically out of necessity more than anything. There's no way in the world that it could be worse than what we saw last year giving up 7 touchdowns a game.
Stoops and Eliot realize that if they don't improve that line then they're going to be looking for new jobs, it's as simple as that.
The scary thing is that looking back now, we had two of the best defensive ends in the nation (and two future professional players) at defensive end, yet time and time again we were able to get almost zero pressure on the quarterback, even early in games where they were fresh.
To me it was kind of an eye-opener to see how well Zadarius played in the senior bowl and how much scouts have been raving about him, yet how poorly he was utilized by our staff.
This staff has shown a tendency to not get the most out of players on the defensive line, and that's a scary thought for the future. Not only did they not dominate as they should have, but we were one of the worst teams in the conference at getting pressure on the QB.
I mean, think about this, we had what was likely the best combo of DE's in the entire nation last year, yet look how badly they were utilized so many times by our coaching staff.
It's just a scary thought that these guys play so poorly and inconsistently under our coaching staff, yet when they play in senior bowls and go to the combine they light it up against guys from powerhouse programs.
That's scary to me, and to me it's a direct indication of coaching when you have ultra-talented players that don't live up to their potential.
Looking back, we greatly under-achieved on the defensive line last year when looking at pure talent.
Were we limited in depth? Sure. Should we have been the worst d-line in the conference (and one of the worst in the nation) when half of our line was NFL players? Absolutely not.
It's a direct indication of coaching. We could see the possibility that those guys had as far as pure talent, but our defensive coaching staff showed time and time again that they couldn't use that immense talent to even form an average defense.
Our defensive coaches have to step their game up. There's no way that line should've been as bad as it was last year with two NFL players on it. I'm not saying it should've been great, but there's no reason it should've been one of the worst in UK history with that talent. It's a direct indication of coaching that our defensive linemen seem to play better when they play under other coaching staffs that fully utilize their talents.
There's no way that having Bud and Z we should'nt have been LIVING in opposing team's backfield's last year and disrupting the running game with their speed and power on the edge. Instead what we saw was one of the worst defensive lines in the nation, and that makes absolutely no sense. At worst they should've been mediocre.
Defensive line should've been the strength of our entire team last year, yet time after time after time it was the weakest unit (by a significant margin) on our entire team, all the while working with the most talent (BY FAR).
I know our defensive tackles weren't great, but come on, they were at least serviceable, especially when they could look to their left and to their right and see an NFL defensive end that should've been DOMINATING the guy across from him on most Saturday's.
I mean I guess you could say it's Bud and Z's fault for not playing to their potential, that it's not our coaching staff's fault that they didn't play well. But here's the thing, when those guys walk off UK's campus and light up senior bowls and combines and suddenly seem to become not only better, but noticably better players, that's a pretty direct indication of coaching to me, whether we want to admit it or not.
All of that being said, I do think the line will be better this year. Although this staff doesn't seem to know how to best utilize the talent on the line, I do think that just adding more size and experience will help overall. I also think Stoops probably realizes that Eliot might be in a little over his head, so he knows that this season (in order not to see a repeat of last season which could very well spell doom for this team no matter how good our offense is) he needs to step in and play a more active role in coaching the defense.
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So you criticize this staff for the position that your hero, Joker, put them in. Is that intentional, or just ignorance?
we switched to a 3-4 and Z is prototypical 4-3 end. the talent is getting oriented around the new scheme. Z was 265# or so. we will replace him with someone over 290 and have backups for that guy all over 280. cj and meant were first year juco's and they always improve that second year.
you're confusing responsiblities in the 2 D's and what is considered a "fit" for each D. we didn't have 2 of the best de's in the nation. we had 1 of the best de's for a 4-3 scheme and one of the best olb'ers in a 3-4 scheme. depth, size, experience, and skill should be up for all 3 down linemen this year. if the lb's COME UP to the los to make tackles instead of waiting for the runner to get to them then this D will drastically improve. if not, then we will all be on here lamenting how bad the d-line is and remarking how they underperformed since 2 of our d-line will go in draft again next year.
you're confusing responsiblities in the 2 D's and what is considered a "fit" for each D. we didn't have 2 of the best de's in the nation. we had 1 of the best de's for a 4-3 scheme and one of the best olb'ers in a 3-4 scheme. depth, size, experience, and skill should be up for all 3 down linemen this year. if the lb's COME UP to the los to make tackles instead of waiting for the runner to get to them then this D will drastically improve. if not, then we will all be on here lamenting how bad the d-line is and remarking how they underperformed since 2 of our d-line will go in draft again next year.
a good point often not understood.
In a 3/4 the D-linemen are playing a lot of two gap and their job is basically to neutralize the opposing O-line and let the linebackers make the plays. In order to be effective you obviously have to have some wide bodies in their especially at NT which we will have, but also the linebackers have to correctly read the keys and break quickly to the play. This is a linebacker friendly scheme that a guys like Forrest and Flanagan should thrive in.
Do you always write books when you post and then repeat yourself 30 times? I'm not sure where the hate stems from. You don't like Stoops? You were a Joker fan? You're a very dedicated troll? The tone and bias is so prevalent throughout your post that there is definitely some other motive at work.
The defense as a whole *should* be a lot better. We only lost 3 starters, one of which wasn't SEC caliber. We will also have 8 or 9 senior starters on the 2015 defense depending on if Jabari Johnson starts at OLB over Denzel Ware. If this defense doesn't rank in the top 40 in total defense then it will be time to fire DJ Eliot and have Stoops take over the defense, much like Derek Mason is doing at Vandy this season. The 2016 defense is going to be terrible.
I disagree with the last part. I think 2016 will still be part of an upward trajectory. I like the depth we are building at every position. We will lose some guys but I don't think the drop in talent will be that great; if at all. Plus you will have fully realized players like McClain, McWilson and Hatcher leading the team. And these guys will have played their entire career under this staff and scheme. 2016 should be the most talented team from top to bottom that we have had here in a while.
This is a very good point. I would say IF, and that is a big IF, our defense improves much, it will mostly be the result of better coaching as mentioned above.
Nobody here has convinced me we'll be that much more talented on defense especially after losing Bud and Z. Our CBs and DEs are suspect at best in the SEC. Frankly, there's a lot of blue tinted glasses saying we are going to be a lot better on defense IMO.
If we get slight improvement on D stats, I'll be pleased. That means the offense will have to win us some games with much more productivity if we're going to get 6 wins. I do think the offense is capable of improving much more than our defense. We have serious offensive talent at the skill positions, a more experienced QB in Towles or Barker, and an O-Line that should at least improve slightly by being more mature with increased depth.
I believe it will take at least 2 more recruiting cycles to shore up this defense in a decent SEC unit, which is just starting to get some SEC quality players(the DT spots finally have some solid depth).
I agree about the 4-3 but I think with the prevalence of spread offenses that coaches are wanting to get another in space defender. Minter soured a lot of UK fans on the 3-4 but we didn't have the talent to run it. Stoops is bringing in the body types to run this D.
"There's no way in the world that it could be worse than what we saw last year giving up 7 touchdowns a game."
Only two teams out of twelve scored 49 or more points on UK, and three of those TDs were on returns and an interception. The average for the season was less than thirty a game, bad enough without exagerating it. But that included trunovers that resulted in TDs, ones that set up TDs, returns for TDs, and overtime games.
You lose a lot of credibility when you make up your facts to prove your point.
And, by the way, there are several ways in the world UK could give up more points next year than the past year, the NCAA could make everyone ineligible, mitch could decide to drop football like Cumberland did before their 222 to zero loss, Patrick (or Barker) could score on the first play every possession giving the other team a lot more opportunities, etc etc.
Now I would give you a million to one odds on any of those particular things happening, but it is a great big world with a lot of possibilities in it.
Tried ti edit the above to say the scores included several field goals, but clicking the edit didn't do anything, not sure what it is there for, this is from the reply feature.
Pretty much. I will say I think our interior of the defense will be better, at DT and at LB. CB and DE still look very questionable, and no one in the SEC (or Louisville) has had any trouble moving the ball on us for what seems like decades now, and see little reason to think 2015 will be markedly different.
I agree that Z was not his best in 3-4 DE...but to be honest...he was 3rd on team in tackles and Bud was #2. I just can't see how we'll be much better in run defense in 2015 barring Love getting the green light to play next year and he turns out to be unreal good at MLB and pushes Forrest to WLB (and Henderson/Flanigan off the field entirely).
Something really bad went wrong with that front 7 last year down the stretch of season...they were just as miserable a front 7 as UK has shown in the Joker/Mumme era of bad defensive teams. You really have to wonder if Elliott is in over his head as a coach and hopefully Buh will bring some fundamental teaching this year to help Elliott out.
Something really bad went wrong with that front 7 last year down the stretch of season...they were just as miserable a front 7 as UK has shown in the Joker/Mumme era of bad defensive teams. You really have to wonder if Elliott is in over his head as a coach and hopefully Buh will bring some fundamental teaching this year to help Elliott out.
There's major thing that went wrong with more or less the whole team last yr......depth --> fatigue......which collided with much better opponents. We just didn't have it across the board. The offense crashed......which meant that the defense had to play a lot more......and then they crashed at nearly every position.
This is much less the case for next yr. We still won't be there 100%, but it will be better.
We lost containment so much in the 3-4 . Not Bud,but the other side was exposed by every SEC foe. With no more Bud,what happens this year. The OLB has to hold the edge like a DE in a 4-3 . I hope Buh can run leverage drill enough to fix that.
Yeah, I couldn't believe how fatigued we were at one point. It was so bad that Stoops wasn't even blaming the team for poor play at press conferences. He just kept saying "it is what it is"....Our guys were missing arm tackles left and right and just didn't have any gas in the tank towards the end of the season. Saying that, I still think we should have been able to get to six wins.
I'm just excited to see if we can finally clog the middle on a lot of plays with our increased depth and size at DT. Elam should be a weapon for us on a lot of downs.
Our LB's couldn't get off of blocks and they also struggled with tackling the ball carrier at the point of attack. Hopefully, with another year in the weight room our LB's will be better in those 2 areas. Our redshirts should help with depth.
We must be better against the run to reach that next stage in the climb out of the cellar of the SEC.
We must be better against the run to reach that next stage in the climb out of the cellar of the SEC.
The counter point to this in a 3/4 scheme the linebackers shouldn't have to be getting off blocks. If the opponent's linemen are getting to the second level that means they defeated our 3 down lineman. IN the 3/4 the nose tackle must control the A gaps, if the guard or center jumps the gap, it usually result in a nice gain for the running back and you really can't blame the linebackers for that.
This year I'm encouraged that we have at least 2 and maybe 3 legit SEC NTs in Lewis, Elam and maybe Hyde. If they can rotate those guys and keep them fresh they have a chance to control the middle. We also have several big physical ends that can get the job done.
The fact that Stoops has elected to go to a 3/4 base this year almost exclusively tells me has a lot of confidence in those big boys up front.
Man..we must have been watching a totally different game. I thought Flanigan was one of the worst players at any postion last year on D. I know coming in late from Juco along with news the 'light' may have come on iwth spring drills....but I wasn't impressed with one facet of Ryan's game last year...looked totally lost and then even when he got to the ball...he didn't bring much punch.
First few games of the season I would've agreed with you. I thought he got better as the season progressed. Henderson is the one who needs reduced PT IMO. Anyway, I think we can agree that all need to get a whole lot better in a hurry.
It looked good the last game because Stoops stacked the line of scrimmage to make UL beat them through the air. That's why you saw all the one-on-one coverage on Parker.
Not really true.
Check these highlights - and note that they come in all different down and distances. You will also notice that ULs passing TDs weren't against stacked boxes
