Well, our Reds have now traded Mike Leake to the Giants for two prospects, one being RHP and the other being an infielder with the last name of Duvall who supposely grew up in Louisville. I wonder if Chapman goes before the 4:00 PM deadline. I guess the Reds will be in a rebuilding mode for the next few years.
Reds unload another starting Pitcher
- Thread starter musrat59
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Duvall is out of Louisville...Butler HS, WKU, UL...good player but has been a corner INF for the giants - would think Votto and Frazier have that covered...maybe can work in LF or something...doesn't seem like a fit that will make an impact.
Ok, so for the remainder of the season, the entire starting rotation consists of all rookies? Who will be the affordable free agent pitchers available in the off season. No guarantee when Bailey will be ready again. They can't trot out 4 rookies and a guy recovering from TJ surgery for an entire season, gonna have to go find a seasoned veteran or two they can get a couple of years out of while the others come along.
I cannot believe they traded Cueto away. I will be pissed for years.
I don't guess they can find any takers for Jay Bruce.
I don't guess they can find any takers for Jay Bruce.
Cueto was a free agent at year's end, and Cincy didn't have the payroll flexibility to really offer him anything. He was going to be gone, and the club wasn't going to go anywhere this year. It's one of those moves that had to be made. I'm really excited about the haul of lefties the Reds got in return though. All three have starter potential in the bigs.
I'm not overly excited about what they got in return. Cincinnati always trades for the same guy(s). A back-end rotation starter/fallback reliever. They never seem to walk away with an elite prospect. They water down their return over multiple players, which is why I can't see them being anything more than average over the next several years while they rebuild. They had some prized assets to trade, and they didn't even walk away with a Top 100 prospect at the deadline.
I realize that Detroit had a better asset to trade in Price, but they at least got a potential ace in Norris. Why can't Cincinnati make that trade? Package Cueto with somebody else and go get an elite prospect instead of average ones who won't take your club over the hump.
Finnegan was a first round draft pick last year who has already pitched in a World Series (albeit in relief; he's at Triple-A now grooming to be a starter). I would consider that elite.
Finnegan is a gamer. Needs to be a solid starter, but has it in him to do so.
Pitched in the CWS and then WS in the same year and was pretty good.
Pitched in the CWS and then WS in the same year and was pretty good.
The Royals had about 5 better pitching prospects than Finnegan. I'm not saying that he isn't decent, but he is no future ace (for a competitive team) and he was very expendable to them. The Royals would have traded another prospect if they thought Finnegan was a key player to their present-day WS chances, so pitching in last year's is irrelevant. No Royals fan was upset with that trade, and it's sad to see fellow Reds fans grasping at straws with current management.
Like I said, they walked away without a single top 100 prospect. Truly disappointing.
Like I said, they walked away without a single top 100 prospect. Truly disappointing.
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Who are some potential free agents the Reds can go after in the off season? Someone affordable but dependable, maybe an older veteran winding down his career, but still viable that the Reds can bring in for a season or two so they don't have to trot out a bunch of rookies and second year players next year every game. Hopefully Bailey comes back and returns to the form he had when he was pitching no hitters. But I hate to think your Ace is somebody recovering from TJ surgery. DeSclafani and Lorenzen have likely solidified rotation spots next year, Iglesias as well, but they still need to go out and find another veteran or two to throw into the mix.
I'm not a fellow Red fan, so I wouldn't care to say the trade sucked for them, if it did. To me, it seems like a pretty decent return...2 young strong lefty arms projected as #2/#3 starters (if the Reds want them as starters), and a high risk/high reward guy in Lamb.
Here is a right up http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015...i-reds-newest-prospects-brandon-finnegan-john
Reed was a 2013 2nd round draft pick and Finnegan was a 2014 first rounder...absurd to say the trade was bad for the Reds.
Here is a right up http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015...i-reds-newest-prospects-brandon-finnegan-john
Reed was a 2013 2nd round draft pick and Finnegan was a 2014 first rounder...absurd to say the trade was bad for the Reds.
I will link you an article from the same author on that website: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/8/2/9085203/grading-every-mlb-trade-deadline-deal
The Johnny Cueto Trade (Reds/Royals)
Cincinnati gets: LHSP Brandon Finnegan (AAA), LHSP John Lamb (AAA), LHSP Cody Reed (AA)
Kansas City gets: RHSP Johnny Cueto, Cash Considerations
Full Recap: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015...i-reds-newest-prospects-brandon-finnegan-john
Analysis: Kansas City really needed pitching. And they got one of the best arms in baseball in Cueto. The Reds re-stocked the farm by prying three lefties from the Royals. Cody Reed will be the determinant here. If he pans out as a No. 3 starter, Cincinnati wins. If not, I’d say this is a good deal for the Royals. I would like to have seen the Reds get more for an ace like Cueto.
Royals: Grade A
Reds: Grade C+
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The "I would like to have seen the Reds get more for an ace like Cueto"-part is exactly what I am trying to say. I was unhappy with the trade because I feel like they could have done better. The Reds also gave away cash and compensatory round pick here.
For us to have "re-stocked the farm" and received a "pretty decent return", then how can you also issue a C+ grade on the deal? There are too many conditional ifs placed on the players that the Reds received regardless of what their draft position was 2+ seasons ago. Baseball prospect stocks rise and fall overnight, and this guy sees the same thing that I do with his trade grade for the Reds.
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Actually he said if the Reed guy performs, the Reds win the trade. Reed is 9-1 in AAA after TJ surgery.
The Reds are awful...this trade wasn't awful. The Homer Bailey contract was awful, and the Votto one will likely be as well.
Cueto is great and was only what 7-6? possibly 3 above average starters/middle relief guys (reds have blown how many in 6-8th innings) is better than 1 IMO.
My team is the Mets. They got Syndergard in a trade like this when they sent away RA Dickey...it can pay.
The Reds are awful...this trade wasn't awful. The Homer Bailey contract was awful, and the Votto one will likely be as well.
Cueto is great and was only what 7-6? possibly 3 above average starters/middle relief guys (reds have blown how many in 6-8th innings) is better than 1 IMO.
My team is the Mets. They got Syndergard in a trade like this when they sent away RA Dickey...it can pay.
That young Suarez guy can swing it though! Hope they improve and the trades work out - it's a team I can get up and see live so I like it when they are good.
But that is a conditional win. I don't want to win trades based on "ifs". I want to win trades at the time they are made. The Royals had better prospects to give, and the Reds settled on less touted ones, which is what is so frustrating.
Syndergaard was a Top 30 prospect at the time he was traded for R.A. Dickey.
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All I am saying is a 2nd rounder from 2013 and 1st rounder from 2014 have tons of time to produce in a big way for the Reds. The other guy was a top 20 prospect before TJ, and has finally returned to form.
I think it is a good deal, you don't. That's fine. Reds aren't ready to win now anyways, so I think they have time to mold these guys to what they want.
I think it is a good deal, you don't. That's fine. Reds aren't ready to win now anyways, so I think they have time to mold these guys to what they want.
And we can't look at this solely as "what did we get for Cueto?"
We need to look at this as "what did we get in exchange for just two months of Cueto?"
We need to look at this as "what did we get in exchange for just two months of Cueto?"
Also, we shouldn't look at it in isolation. The Reds also got RHP Keury Mella from the Giants for two months of Mike Leake. Mella ranked as the Giants' best prospect according to MLB Pipelines midseason report. They also have Robert Stephenson down at Triple-A and DeSclafani making strides in the bigs. All of those guys have the potential to develop into an ace.
We will have 10 guys competing for rotation spots in Spring Training, all of them talented. I can't remember ever having the young depth at starting pitching that we are going to have in the coming seasons. That's big time.
We will have 10 guys competing for rotation spots in Spring Training, all of them talented. I can't remember ever having the young depth at starting pitching that we are going to have in the coming seasons. That's big time.
We can do that if we are okay with making excuses for team management. Cueto came with a compensatory pick if he is only rented, and he also came with cash.
The Tigers got a Top 25 overall prospect and future ace in Norris and two other LHPs for "two months of Price".
The Leake trade wasn't as bad as the Cueto one, but the Giants also have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball, so it's not saying much to be their top prospect. Another compensatory pick was attached here as well.
The issue is that they undersold. The Reds are a poorly managed franchise, and it's one reason why they cannot consistently compete with the Cardinals.
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Lamb looked a little shaky in his first inning but that's to be expected. Allowed back-to-back hits but got out of the inning only allowing one run. Interested to see how he does from here.
Looks like he has some good stuff. Not what I expected him to look like when I flipped the channel. ![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
Broke it open on him in the 5th. 4 2 out hits, Gonzalez with the 3 run bomb after price called a 1-0 inside fastball...not sure why you go low and in on a lefty in a fastball count.
Lamb has some tools to be a #2-3 starter...mixes speeds great, curve in low 70s, change is nasty in mid 70s and fastball goes low 90s
Lamb has some tools to be a #2-3 starter...mixes speeds great, curve in low 70s, change is nasty in mid 70s and fastball goes low 90s
Yeah, I'd imagine Lamb probably goes into next season as the No. 3 or 4 guy. When Bailey returns he's your No. 1 but I like DeSclafani's future as well. A rotation of Bailey, DeSclafani, Lamb, Stephenson and Finnegan or someone else probably won't win many games next year, but I like the potential down the road.
Yeah, the Reds have position player issues as well, so I like the gamble on these 3 lefty arms. They have time to allow them to develop
I really like what Suarez has done to this point. Think he has to be somewhere in the lineup next year.
Yep, I agree. Looks like someone you can be excited about...great at the plate.
He and Cozart at 2B and SS, time to move Phillips to the bench, what will he be, 38 next season?
Be nice if they had a young guy instead of Cozart. Not a huge fan of his...and Phillips is getting up there in age, probably would've tried to deal him to the Royals with Cueto...he is hitting .290 this year.
Here is a recently written trade retrospective piece one year later on the Cueto to the Royals deal: http://calltothepen.com/2016/07/26/mlb-trade-retrospective-july-26-2015-johnny-cueto-to-the-royals/
Looking back, the Reds got an All-Star in the Leake trade, but now is probably the right time to sell-high on Duvall.
Looking back, the Reds got an All-Star in the Leake trade, but now is probably the right time to sell-high on Duvall.
I think it was a poor trade then and I think it's a poor trade now. IMO the Reds could have gotten more for both Cueto and Chapman if the front office would have insisted on more.
