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Lloyd Tubman

(Wildcat)

Senior
Jul 19, 2008
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Just saw Lloyd Tubman and his attorney walking past the Student Center / Bookstore on Ave. of Champions. Don't know what they were doing but thought those interested might be able to dig deeper and find out if this is a sign of Lloyd either staying at UK or leaving.
 
Best guess is that he wouldn't need an attorney to leave. Hopefully he gets reinstated and will be back in school.
 
Originally posted by TBCat:
Best guess is that he wouldn't need an attorney to leave. Hopefully he gets reinstated and will be back in school.
Yeah, that is the encouragement to take from it. Also that he probably should be allowed to return and has a chance to do that.
 
one would think that by bringing his attorney the thinking was that the attorney could lay out the case against... the facts of the case... and lloyds version of the story... and could make a more compelling "case" for reinstating him. with all the focus on domestic abuse and college rape around the nation, college administrators are gonna be weary of letting guys accused of those infractions, back into school (unless you go to ul). so hopefully the attorney was able to show that the evidence against was very weak and that lloyd deserves to be reinstated (notice i didnt say "a second chance" ul fans)
 
Good question, the clock is ticking and he is already way behind because of this. Doubtful if the NCAA would make any adjustments for him and UK. even if it was clear he deserved one. Anyone know about when he could resume his "lifw" and football career if he does come back?
 
This player went through the judicial process and there was a determination by a Grand Jury that the case shouldn't be brought forward.

Where are the AL Sharptons of the world? The Jessie Jacksons. Etc...

Unless there is more to this story, this is a travesty and no one seems all that bothered by it.
 
Originally posted by jauk11:
Good question, the clock is ticking and he is already way behind because of this. Doubtful if the NCAA would make any adjustments for him and UK. even if it was clear he deserved one. Anyone know about when he could resume his "lifw" and football career if he does come back?
My hope is this gets resolved soon, get him in school for the summer sessions and on the field this fall. I also hope he's been taking classes on-line or at a local community college to keep the academic end up to date.
 
Originally posted by jauk11:
Good question, the clock is ticking and he is already way behind because of this. Doubtful if the NCAA would make any adjustments for him and UK. even if it was clear he deserved one. Anyone know about when he could resume his "lifw" and football career if he does come back?
Well he isnt that behind, he was already redshirting for the 2014 season before this October incident caused him to withdraw from school & the team suspended him. Hopefully he has been able to take online classes to maintain academic progress. And as far as the clock, the Spring semester is 1/2 over he couldnt enroll and start taking classes at UK until mid-May anyway.

If everything works out, he will be readmitted to UK & the team after the Spring semester, he can get back into the High Performance program over the summer along with participating in the "informal" unsupervised team practices/workouts. Then dive into practice come August '15 and see if he can work his way up on the DE depth chart to earn some playing time this season.

**IF**
 
If the kid is innocent, I just want him back in the program. I would love for him to be able to play this year but if he can't so be it. I just want him here because he's gonna be a big time player for us and from everything I've read about him, he's not the kind of guy who is some bad seed. I think there was some type of revenge factor going on here or something.
 
Right after the incident; I think someone posted that he was taking online courses the first semester. As far as the 2nd semester, he could be enrolled at Jefferson Community College in the 'Ville. Because they have no football program, he could enroll at UK this summer. Arthose Pinner did this at LCC and he did dot lose any eligibility because they had/have no football program.
 
Originally posted by Deeeefense:
does anyone know if there is a time frame for how long the committee will deliberate?
As long as its not the NCAA time frame we should be good, lol.
 
Originally posted by CatDaddy4daWin:
If the kid is innocent, I just want him back in the program. I would love for him to be able to play this year but if he can't so be it. I just want him here because he's gonna be a big time player for us and from everything I've read about him, he's not the kind of guy who is some bad seed. I think there was some type of revenge factor going on here or something.
Please link this. I've heard on here that he is a good kid, but haven't been able to find anything with substance. Be clear that I am not saying that he isn't great, I'd just like to read something other than fans talking.
 
Originally posted by (Wildcat):
Just saw Lloyd Tubman and his attorney walking past the Student Center / Bookstore on Ave. of Champions. Don't know what they were doing but thought those interested might be able to dig deeper and find out if this is a sign of Lloyd either staying at UK or leaving.
Anybody consider maybe they decided to not let him return and he sued the hello out of them as he should? Maybe it was his civil suit attorney there for a settlement meeting and he is about to be pizzaid, BIG time? He certainly deserves it to be discriminated against like this, a non guilty man thrown out of school under unsubstantiated accusations.
 
^This. He will get paid if they don't let him back in. This whole student panel is a bunch of crap. Why would we allow this panel to put the University at risk financially? If this is what happens I would expect this panel to get neutered.
 
Originally posted by Rawrrr:

Originally posted by (Wildcat):
Just saw Lloyd Tubman and his attorney walking past the Student Center / Bookstore on Ave. of Champions. Don't know what they were doing but thought those interested might be able to dig deeper and find out if this is a sign of Lloyd either staying at UK or leaving.
Anybody consider maybe they decided to not let him return and he sued the hello out of them as he should? Maybe it was his civil suit attorney there for a settlement meeting and he is about to be pizzaid, BIG time? He certainly deserves it to be discriminated against like this, a non guilty man thrown out of school under unsubstantiated accusations.
I can't understand even vaguely reasonable basis for a law suit. On what basis is this discrimination? You don't have a right to be a student at UK. No matter how much we might want him back there is simply no justification for a law suit. UK expels people every year for more frivolous reason than sexual assault charges. Even if it went to the jury and Lloyd was 100% vindicated it still wouldn't legally obligate UK to admit him nor would it bind Stoops to accept him back. Guilty or innocent the University still has the right to decide if they want him back. We need to shelve the lawsuit talk because there isn't even enough basis for a garbage lawsuit that would get thrown out before the judge even sits down.
 
Originally posted by Rawrrr:


Originally posted by (Wildcat):
Just saw Lloyd Tubman and his attorney walking past the Student Center / Bookstore on Ave. of Champions. Don't know what they were doing but thought those interested might be able to dig deeper and find out if this is a sign of Lloyd either staying at UK or leaving.
Anybody consider maybe they decided to not let him return and he sued the hello out of them as he should? Maybe it was his civil suit attorney there for a settlement meeting and he is about to be pizzaid, BIG time? He certainly deserves it to be discriminated against like this, a non guilty man thrown out of school under unsubstantiated accusations.
Well, I guess someone had to point out the negative. Not surprised it was you.
 
Originally posted by BBBLazing:

Originally posted by CatDaddy4daWin:
If the kid is innocent, I just want him back in the program. I would love for him to be able to play this year but if he can't so be it. I just want him here because he's gonna be a big time player for us and from everything I've read about him, he's not the kind of guy who is some bad seed. I think there was some type of revenge factor going on here or something.
Please link this. I've heard on here that he is a good kid, but haven't been able to find anything with substance. Be clear that I am not saying that he isn't great, I'd just like to read something other than fans talking.
Do your own research and use Google or something if you want official proof or whatever.

How about you provide me an official link telling me you are nothing more than a goober who posts stupid stuff on a message board? Please link this.

This post was edited on 3/28 1:31 PM by Cats78
 
Redleg, perhaps, you can tell us how colleges and universities should handle rules violations. Currently, at every college and university in the country the student agrees to obey institutional rules as a condition of admission. Administrative hearings are held to determine if a preponderance of evidence exist to find if rules were violated. Sanctions are based on the severity of the violation if a violation occurred. I have never seen a university catalog that excluded specific groups of students from rules requirements, i.e., athletes. The process is based on case law and and can sometimes be cumbersome because of conflicting court findings. It is not a legal process and deals only with a student's privilege to continue to attend a specfic institution.

I might add that lawyers are only allowed to speak at such hearings, no matter how much they and others protest, if the administrative officer agrees for that to happen. Again, not a legal process. If laws are broken it is up to elected officials to deal with the situation. Universities can, and often do, proceed separately.

This post was edited on 3/28 8:08 PM by FHAZCat
 
Originally posted by cadillaccat:
Right after the incident; I think someone posted that he was taking online courses the first semester. As far as the 2nd semester, he could be enrolled at Jefferson Community College in the 'Ville. Because they have no football program, he could enroll at UK this summer. Arthose Pinner did this at LCC and he did dot lose any eligibility because they had/have no football program.
I'm pretty sure that once your eligibility clock starts, it doesn't stop regardless if you in a program with, or without a football team or not even in school at all. You can delay the clock starting by enrolling in a place like JCC or LCC right out of high school.
 
Originally posted by FHAZCat:
Redleg, perhaps, you can tell us how colleges and universities should handle rules violations. Currently, at every college and university in the country the student agrees to obey institutional rules as a condition of admission. Administrative hearings are held to determine if a preponderance of evidence exist to find if rules were violated. Sanctions are based on the severity of the violation if a violation occurred. I have never seen a university catalog that excluded specific groups of students from rules requirements, i.e., athletes. The process is based on case law and and can sometimes be cumbersome because of conflicting court findings. It is not a legal process and deals only with a student's privilege to continue to attend a specfic institution.

I might add that lawyers are only allowed to speak at such hearings, no matter how much they and others protest, if the administrative officer agrees for that to happen. Again, not a legal process. If laws are broken it is up to elected officials to deal with the situation. Universities can, and often do, proceed separately.

This post was edited on 3/28 8:08 PM by FHAZCat
I think the point is that according to the legal system no law was broken counselor.
 
Originally posted by Deeeefense:
Originally posted by cadillaccat:
Right after the incident; I think someone posted that he was taking online courses the first semester. As far as the 2nd semester, he could be enrolled at Jefferson Community College in the 'Ville. Because they have no football program, he could enroll at UK this summer. Arthose Pinner did this at LCC and he did dot lose any eligibility because they had/have no football program.
I'm pretty sure that once your eligibility clock starts, it doesn't stop regardless if you in a program with, or without a football team or not even in school at all. You can delay the clock starting by enrolling in a place like JCC or LCC right out of high school.
but i think you have to have academic progress and if he had to sit out 2 semesters with no progress it could hamper eligibilty this fall. if he was able to take some classes and loads up this summer, then he could be eligible this fall. just a hunch.
 
Originally posted by jauk11:
Originally posted by Rawrrr:


Originally posted by (Wildcat):
Just saw Lloyd Tubman and his attorney walking past the Student Center / Bookstore on Ave. of Champions. Don't know what they were doing but thought those interested might be able to dig deeper and find out if this is a sign of Lloyd either staying at UK or leaving.
Anybody consider maybe they decided to not let him return and he sued the hello out of them as he should? Maybe it was his civil suit attorney there for a settlement meeting and he is about to be pizzaid, BIG time? He certainly deserves it to be discriminated against like this, a non guilty man thrown out of school under unsubstantiated accusations.
Well, I guess someone had to point out the negative. Not surprised it was you.
I'm glad you're not surprised, we wouldn't want you to have to endure any surprises.
laugh.r191677.gif
And it's negative for a teenager who was unjustly accused, expelled, and possibly have millions in future earnings ruined, to get a large settlement for his troubles? I'm not surprised you would think that's negative.
 
I agree that an injustice will have been done if he is innocent (and that seems to be the verdict) but it sounds like he might not have much chance against the establishment. But what I was posting about was you running with the negative assumption that he has been kicked out of the program for good and is just trying for some money, UK football can never win per some posters.
 
Originally posted by Deeeefense:
Originally posted by cadillaccat:
Right after the incident; I think someone posted that he was taking online courses the first semester. As far as the 2nd semester, he could be enrolled at Jefferson Community College in the 'Ville. Because they have no football program, he could enroll at UK this summer. Arthose Pinner did this at LCC and he did dot lose any eligibility because they had/have no football program.
I'm pretty sure that once your eligibility clock starts, it doesn't stop regardless if you in a program with, or without a football team or not even in school at all.
I think that's right. Tubman is interesting because he is a JeffCo kid who Stoops managed to pry away from Jamie Franklin. We are anxious for Stoops to work his defensive magic, and Tubman has the size to help. When Tubman ran into trouble last year, everyone knew this would take some time to work out. Folks can say whatever they want, but it is pointless to guess what his lawyer was doing on campus. Without information, pointless to speculate what may or may not happen. I just hope Tubman gets everything straightened out, and manages to avoid Bobby Petrino. If he ends up continuing his career as a Kentucky player, that would be great. But until Tubman or the school announces something, I suggest we focus on the players who are here and practicing.
 
Originally posted by jauk11:

I agree that an injustice will have been done if he is innocent (and that seems to be the verdict) but it sounds like he might not have much chance against the establishment. But what I was posting about was you running with the negative assumption that he has been kicked out of the program for good and is just trying for some money, UK football can never win per some posters.
Nah I was just offering a possible alternate scenario. I personally hope it turns out to be scenario #1 where the mystery attorney is indeed helping him get back in school and back on the team. But the second more negative possibility also exists, whether we want it to or not. If it is scenario 2, let's hope he gets a big settlement at least.

This post was edited on 3/29 12:18 PM by Rawrrr
 
He wasn't indicted on the pathetically weak probable cause standard. So let's kick him out of school on even a weaker preponderance of the evidence standard.
 
Originally posted by gsayers:
He wasn't indicted on the pathetically weak probable cause standard. So let's kick him out of school on even a weaker preponderance of the evidence standard.
My "source" tells me he did have a meeting with UK this week , but he has not heard back from him...Here is hoping this is cleared up and Lloyd can get on with his life at KENTUCKY...
smokin.r191677.gif
 
Zcats, no that is not the point. The point is that the university procedure has only to do with UNIVERSITY RULES. The standards for legal charges are substantially different than from university rules charges. Read again, COUNSELOR!
 
Originally posted by FHAZCat:
Zcats, no that is not the point. The point is that the university procedure has only to do with UNIVERSITY RULES. The standards for legal charges are substantially different than from university rules charges. Read again, COUNSELOR!
The point is that a LOT of innocent people have been falsely imprisoned because of the money system our lawyers have foisted on us. Putting people in prison is BIG business to a lot of the people involved in it. If the Grand Jury decided not to indict him then I tend to think that is what should have been done.

Read "Adams vs Texas", a great book based on a true story. Another Ohio "recruit" that ended up in Texas.
 
"If laws are broken it is up to elected officials to deal
with the situation. Universities can, and often do, proceed separately."

FHAZCAT, I did read your post. I didn't contradict that the process is different in the legal system and the university student code. What I pointed out is your last statement implies that laws were broken. In this case the legal system did not determine that laws were broken so that allegation of sexual assault by itself, has little merit. If the student is to be dismissed by the university I believe they would need additional evidence that the student had violated the student code of behavior. Maybe they have such evidence but none has been made public. Considering what just happened in Cincinnati where an athlete sued the university who dismissed him in a similar situation without legal findings of misconduct and subsequent university due process I would think UK would be very careful.
 
Zcat, reasonable comments. Still, my intent was to point out that UK does not deal with felonies, except in the context of university rules, and local prosecutors do not deal with tne university rule book. They are entirely different processes and are handled accordingly.
 
Originally posted by cadillaccat:
Right after the incident; I think someone posted that he was taking online courses the first semester. As far as the 2nd semester, he could be enrolled at Jefferson Community College in the 'Ville. Because they have no football program, he could enroll at UK this summer. Arthose Pinner did this at LCC and he did dot lose any eligibility because they had/have no football program.Last Chance College?
 
Two points here, reinstatement and progress toward degree.

Since he was dismissed from UK for non-academic reasons he must apply for readmission. This link does not specify exactly to whom he must petition for readmission, probably Dean of Students or some similar position. If the charges against him which led to his dismissal are proven to be without merit I would expect he would be granted readmission. If his readmission was denied naturally he could sue (you can sue over damn near anything) but I don't think there would be much merit to his case.

If reinstated for the fall semester I presume he would have to meet the progress toward degree requirement. This might be difficult. The basic criteria for second year progress is to have successfully completed at 24 hours of which at least 18 must have been earned in the prior fall and spring semesters. Unless there are some applicable exceptions or waivers if he was not in school this spring he would have had to have completed 18 hours in the fall semester to meet the requirement.

Peace
 
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