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Last year's team was 1 in every 20 years.

whhs22

Freshman
Oct 2, 2014
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The team we have in place for next year .right now is top 10. With the young guys coming in . And the vets , this team is more then capable of making a run.

Alex. Lee, Hawk Willis and Ulis make a strong foundation for a top recruiting class coming in. Some people have unrealistic expectations.

We will lose some games next year. But by March this group could have an identity and playing really good team ball . Kinda like the year Jorts and Knight took us to a final 4.

Really looking forward to watching these guys gel into another great team.
 
The team we have in place for next year .right now is top 10. With the young guys coming in . And the vets , this team is more then capable of making a run.

Alex. Lee, Hawk Willis and Ulis make a strong foundation for a top recruiting class coming in. Some people have unrealistic expectations.

We will lose some games next year. But by March this group could have an identity and playing really good team ball . Kinda like the year Jorts and Knight took us to a final 4.

Really looking forward to watching these guys gel into another great team.
Disagree. Last year's team maybe 1 in 50 yrs. Nine McD's and 7 leave for the pros. The most talented team from top to bottom maybe in history.

Still not enough to win it all.
 
Disagree. Last year's team maybe 1 in 50 yrs. Nine McD's and 7 leave for the pros. The most talented team from top to bottom maybe in history.

Still not enough to win it all.

Sorry no. That team wasnt even close to ONE of the most talented in history. They were a very good team and great in some aspects, but there were no guys that had multiple angles to their game. Willie couldn't play offense, at all. Towns couldn't score unless he was under the basket(cal). Booker was a streaky shooter. The Harrison's were great, but nowhere near the best guards last year. Aaron really regressed. Dakari regressed and wasn't that useful. Lee can jump.
No athletic true wing.

I'm sorry, but this might be one of the more overrated teams of my life, and that's just because the hype was so great. They were a fascinating team, no doubt. They had a great year and bright yet another final four. But all the "best ever" or "beat in 50 years" talk is insane. Start looking at them for that they were already.
 
Dare I say it? Kentucky was a very good team last year but overrated by the media as some once-a-half-century team. You play basketball with five guys, and a couple key reserves. Both the 2012 and 1996 Kentucky teams had more talented starting fives. Davis was much more talented than any 2015 player. MKG was a better college player than anyone except maybe Towns. Jones was a better player in 2012 than Lyles. Lamb and Booker is a push.

2015 Kentucky might not even have been the most talented team in 2015. Call Okafor and Towns a push. Winslow had more talent than Lyles. Tyus Jones had more talent than any Kentucky guard. Overall, Duke shot much better. WCS? Loved the guy, but against the best talent he couldn't score and really wasn't much of a rebounder. As for Wisconsin, when you factor in the value of experience in a one-and-done tournament, is there any doubt the Badgers had the two best players on the court in Kaminsky and Dekker? Who cares who had the best ninth man in a tournament game with TV time outs every four minutes?

The 2015 team was an accident: WCS, Johnson and the Harrisons unexpectedly returned. That gave the Cats 10 talented players but not five guys perfectly synced to be a great team: No great wing scorer, average outside shooting when Booker wasn't on a hot streak, guards who were very good but not great.

That is not to say Kentucky shouldn't have won it all -- the Cats were easily good enough to do that, but so was Wisconsin and Duke. The three best teams were still playing at the end, and there wasn't a huge talent gap among them.

This is pretty accurate, especially the statement about starting 5 guys. And if you look at it, Duke (as I said all year) had the best starting 5 and Wisconsin was probably second. I disagree on Booker though. There's no way he and lamb are a push. Booker had a good month shooting the basketball. He wasn't a great shooter here. I don't know why people keep pounding that one.
 
Thanks for your overall agreement. The reason I called Lamb and Booker a push is because Booker was bigger and could do more things, even when he wasn't shooting well. Lamb was the better shooter overall, as we found when Booker went cold.

By the way -- I think it is critical for Kentucky fans to endure this post-season reassessment of the 2015 with honesty. They were a terrific team that made history starting 38-0. They weren't a truly, historically great team. Why is it important to accept that? Because I think that some people bought into the media hype and the year-long 'march to history' to the extent that it has created bitterness about this team, and an inability to accept what the team did accomplish. Embrace them as one of our squads that added to Kentucky's rich history.

I think UK fans should accept what they were as well. I'm with you on it. One other reason to accept them for what they were is also good for our future teams. We already have people thinking our team next year looks like crap because it's a more traditional looking roster. They could end up going further than last year, but people don't see 10 burger boys. It's really creating a false perception of what it takes to win a college championship. To me next years team is already looking more balanced.

I agree that team was a special team, but they weren't an all time great. " _________" of the last 50 years - and " who's better 96 or 15?" Stuff is just nonsense that shouldn't have ever been said or compared.
 
You really believe next year we will be more balanced and go farther than our 38-1 team.Umm okay.Unless you know some big recruits we are getting I just don't see it.
 
I think in a way we started out the best team, but for whatever reason regressed as the season we went along. We were still really good, but not as good as some were making us out to be.
 
In terms of pedigree, stars, and on paper, yes they were a team that may not be recreated for a LONG time. And in the end, its still never a guarantee to win the tournament. :( 2015 was a historically GREAT team and I don't think its fair to take anything away from how great they really were. Like many of you, I've been watching ball for a long time and I've seen VERY few teams that were ever capable of doing some of the things that this team did.

I think the PTS we have all been exposed to from the way the season ended is causing us to make some crazy statements.
 
I think in a way we started out the best team, but for whatever reason regressed as the season we went along. We were still really good, but not as good as some were making us out to be.
You can make a pretty good case for this,for the first 1/4 of the season we looked unbeatable.We all thought that when this team goes to the next gear(that we were sure they had) then no one will have a chance.It just never happened,Towns got better as the year went on,Booker went thru a hot streak but the team never really got better than what we saw against KU or UCLA.We ran the table in the SEC but had a more difficult time doing it than we should have.

38-1 is a great accomplishment and the team deserves all the credit they have gotten for doing that but they left too much on the table for all the talent they had vs the talent in the rest of college basketball
 
You really believe next year we will be more balanced and go farther than our 38-1 team.Umm okay.Unless you know some big recruits we are getting I just don't see it.
BIG TIME RECRUITS ALL READY SIGNED
  1. Skal may be the best scoring big man in the game next year. Better than KAT and WCS right now.
  2. Isiah Briscoe - He can score and completely take over a game. We did not have that this year.
  3. Matthews will be an excellent role player.
Those 3 with what we have coming back is balanced. Cal is not done yet.
  1. Add a big like Diallo and we have depth
  2. Add a BROWN and we have a wing like MKG
  3. Add a Mulder and Murray and we have another perimeter shooter
With any of the above, UK goes to the next level. Cal's track record indicates a deep tournament run is possible. GBB
 
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Dare I say it? Kentucky was a very good team last year but overrated by the media as some once-a-half-century team. You play basketball with five guys, and a couple key reserves. Both the 2012 and 1996 Kentucky teams had more talented starting fives. Davis was much more talented than any 2015 player. MKG was a better college player than anyone except maybe Towns. Jones was a better player in 2012 than Lyles. Lamb and Booker is a push.

2015 Kentucky might not even have been the most talented team in 2015. Call Okafor and Towns a push. Winslow had more talent than Lyles. Tyus Jones had more talent than any Kentucky guard. Overall, Duke shot much better. WCS? Loved the guy, but against the best talent he couldn't score and really wasn't much of a rebounder. As for Wisconsin, when you factor in the value of experience in a one-and-done tournament, is there any doubt the Badgers had the two best players on the court in Kaminsky and Dekker? Who cares who had the best ninth man in a tournament game with TV time outs every four minutes?

The 2015 team was an accident: WCS, Johnson and the Harrisons unexpectedly returned. That gave the Cats 10 talented players but not five guys perfectly synced to be a great team: No great wing scorer, average outside shooting when Booker wasn't on a hot streak, guards who were very good but not great.

That is not to say Kentucky shouldn't have won it all -- the Cats were easily good enough to do that, but so was Wisconsin and Duke. The three best teams were still playing at the end, and there wasn't a huge talent gap among them.
Yeah, no.

If you go by talent in the starting five, then 2010 was a better team than 1996. That's obviously a stupid conclusion to come to.

'15 had the highest Kenpom rating and BPI rating in their databases (both of which account for SOS), the best margin vs ranked teams in the modern era, the best margin against the schedule since '96 UK - it was a juggernaut in every way.

Every once in a while, you run into idiot rival fans or chicken little UK fans who act like UK was caught up in more close games than most "great teams". And it's absolutely not true. Except for '91 UNLV and '96 UK, there is not a single modern era great team that had fewer close games. Even '12 UK had more close games.

This team CRUSHED people.

It's SO GD short sighted to look after the fact, turn around, and say "well, guess they weren't that great". It's idiotic, in fact. '91 UNLV WAS that great. '99 Duke WAS that great. '15 UK WAS that great. To say otherwise just makes you look like a statistical ignoramus. The best team just doesn't always win in a 1 game elimination tournament.

Even with all the numbers taken into account before the tourney, we were still like at 40% to win the whole thing according to the models. Get this through your head: WHAT OCCURRED WAS WHAT WAS EXPECTED. THERE WAS NO "EXPOSURE". NO TRUTH WAS SUDDENLY REVEALED. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW GD GOOD A TEAM IS, YOU ALWAYS TAKE THE FIELD IN THE NCAAS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE 3 OTHER TEAMS IN THE TOURNEY WHO ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE #1 MOST YEARS.

Wisconsin was just a slightly lesser juggernaut. They were the third highest rated BPI team in the database after '15 UK and '12 UK.

They were no damn joke, and they were gonna win 25% of the time we played, and that happened to be in that 25%. We got the better part of the odds in all those other games, just so happened to fall the other way that time.
 
Disagree. Last year's team maybe 1 in 50 yrs. Nine McD's and 7 leave for the pros. The most talented team from top to bottom maybe in history.

Still not enough to win it all.

Chuckinden said, almost verbatim, what I had in my mind to write after I read the OP's post.

I probably would have also added -- or at least, would have wanted to add -- the rhetorical question: "Wonder why it wasn't enough to win it all."
 
This past season was our best opportunity to win a national championship. The next opportunity will happen like either 98 or getting an Anthony Davis surprise. The freshman 1 and done thing has created a real crap shoot with predictability. A freshman exceeds beyond expectations is what it now seems to take.
 
BIG TIME RECRUITS ALL READY SIGNED
  1. Skal may be the best scoring big man in the game next year. Better than KAT and WCS right now.
  2. Isiah Briscoe - He can score and completely take over a game. We did not have that this year.
  3. Matthews will be an excellent role player.
Those 3 with what we have coming back is balanced. Cal is not done yet.
  1. Add a big like Diallo and we have depth
  2. Add a BROWN and we have a wing like MKG
  3. Add a Mulder and Murray and we have another perimeter shooter
With any of the above, UK goes to the next level. Cal's track record indicates a deep tournament run is possible. GBB

"Skal better than KATright now..."

Yea....that's just not true
 
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96 and 12 were both better, and I would have said the same thing if we had completed 40-0.
 
Last years team was VERY special. Yeah, they got beat in the final four. However, a thinking fan considers the body of work, not just the bitter result of a team falling to its one Achilles heel (defending the screen). The '15 team's defense was without parallel in all the decades I've been watching college basketball. Now don't throw a couple of games in my face and SURELY don't through one game in my face. (If we're going to throw individual games, I'm gonna throw Kansas and you'll lose.) Stat after stat shows the superiority of '15's defense. Nuff said.

Perfect? No. The standout team in 20 years on defense? Yeah, but . . . The standout defensive team in, well ever? Yes.

In hindsight I wonder how much this very thing affected the team at the end. They weren't playing just Wisconsin. They were playing history. Win two more games, we're having the discussion about best team . . . ever. How much pressure does that put on a 19 year old or on a team? Don't anyone ever tell me that they know that pressure. Nobody here, nobody you know has ever faced it. Well, except our '15 Cats, the ones with the best defense we've ever seen.
 
96 and 12 were both better, and I would have said the same thing if we had completed 40-0.
And you'd be wrong about '12.

They lost to mediocre teams, had more close games than '15 and a worse margin, both vs the schedule as a whole and against ranked teams. '15 lost to one team that had the highest ranked Kenpom Offense ever and that would be the #1 team the majority of years.
 
78 Kentucky team was far better than the Wisconsin team that beat the 2015 Kentucky team.

I respect your opinion on that. When it comes to offense, I think you have a point. Macy was a basketball Hal 9000 (If you get that reference, we both are too old) that could also shoot the lights out. He also knew how to take his four and trash your four.

When it comes to defense, no, I gotta stop there. The 78 team defense was not better than the 15 team defense. I watched them both. I watch a LOT of basketball. Last years defense was the best I've seen without qualification.

Oh man, wouldn't it be fun to have watched 15 play 78? Or the Bowie/Turpin final year versus 15? That team may have been the best rounded team of them all and they didn't win the championship either. I still believe someone was playing Harry Potter with the basket in the second half of that game with Georgetown.

Fun stuff.
 
"Skal better than KATright now..."

Yea....that's just not true
We will see. KAT was not a consistent scorer until the end. Skal's offensive game is better right now. Cal will run the offense through Skal from the jump.

KAT improved big time from the start of the year til the end. He is being drafted #1 on potential and talent. How many games last year did you actual say damn KAT was the best player on the floor and dominated the game? GBB
 
And you'd be wrong about '12.

They lost to mediocre teams, had more close games than '15 and a worse margin, both vs the schedule as a whole and against ranked teams. '15 lost to one team that had the highest ranked Kenpom Offense ever and that would be the #1 team the majority of years.
Lol, they lost to a 4 seed (that would be a 1 seed the next season with nearly the same team) on the road by 1 point in an extremely hostile environment, on a last second shot. Then lost to another 4 seed with multiple NBA players that they had already beaten twice. And that Vandy team was better than any other SEC team this year, not to mention the Florida team that made the Elite 8.

You can quote statistics all you want, I watched every second of both seasons. 2012 was the better team. Towns is the only player from this year that would start for 12, and you can make a strong case that Jones, who was also a great player, was the better fit next to Davis. This year's team was clearly deeper, but I'd say that would be their only advantage.

There were plenty of close games this year, of course they get credit for winning them all until the FF. But you'll notice that in the tournament, the 12 team was never really challenged.
 
Funny thing is, when UK was 20-0, 25-0,38-0 if you suggested this wasn't an all time great, esp by a member of the media, you were nearly tarred and feathered on here by some who are now in the "this wasn't that great of a team" camp. I'll say, I thought 1-5 they were not as good as 2012. I thought 96 was better. But this was a great team for 2015. No excuses and no rationalizing will ever explain away this squad choked on the biggest stage. It's actually insulting to suggest otherwise.
 
I respect your opinion on that. When it comes to offense, I think you have a point. Macy was a basketball Hal 9000 (If you get that reference, we both are too old) that could also shoot the lights out. He also knew how to take his four and trash your four.

When it comes to defense, no, I gotta stop there. The 78 team defense was not better than the 15 team defense. I watched them both. I watch a LOT of basketball. Last years defense was the best I've seen without qualification.

Oh man, wouldn't it be fun to have watched 15 play 78? Or the Bowie/Turpin final year versus 15? That team may have been the best rounded team of them all and they didn't win the championship either. I still believe someone was playing Harry Potter with the basket in the second half of that game with Georgetown.

Fun stuff.
The 78 team could defend the pick and role. They might not have been quite as good defensively but they were a much better rebounding team,especially offensive rbs,and we're far more physically imposing as a team. They were tagged with the term "Karate Defense". Joe B was not to happy about that:)
 
The 78 team could defend the pick and role. They might not have been quite as good defensively but they were a much better rebounding team,especially offensive rbs,and we're far more physically imposing as a team. They were tagged with the term "Karate Defense". Joe B was not to happy about that:)

Yes, they certainly were a fine ball club. I think the 96 team had (and wielded) a better press, too. Best all round defense? Give me the 15 team.

I firmly believe the 78 team was so physical, they changed the face of SEC basketball to this day. i think the SEC brand of basketball is rougher than any other. I never worry about getting roughed up out of conference.
 
Lol, they lost to a 4 seed (that would be a 1 seed the next season with nearly the same team) on the road by 1 point in an extremely hostile environment, on a last second shot. Then lost to another 4 seed with multiple NBA players that they had already beaten twice. And that Vandy team was better than any other SEC team this year, not to mention the Florida team that made the Elite 8.

You can quote statistics all you want, I watched every second of both seasons. 2012 was the better team. Towns is the only player from this year that would start for 12, and you can make a strong case that Jones, who was also a great player, was the better fit next to Davis. This year's team was clearly deeper, but I'd say that would be their only advantage.

There were plenty of close games this year, of course they get credit for winning them all until the FF. But you'll notice that in the tournament, the 12 team was never really challenged.

this is spot on.

The 2012 team also won the championship rather easily. This team was having trouble after the sweet 16. The SEC was historically weak last year, and that was the main reason for the undefeated season. I'm not trying to attack the '15 team or undersell what they were, but man, how could anyone still compare them to 96 or '12?

The stats don't mean anything, the '15 team was not a well rounded team. Was great in some aspects, and mediocre in others. One of the best defensive teams I've ever seen, yes. But their offense never became great. never.
 
this is spot on.

The 2012 team also won the championship rather easily. This team was having trouble after the sweet 16. The SEC was historically weak last year, and that was the main reason for the undefeated season. I'm not trying to attack the '15 team or undersell what they were, but man, how could anyone still compare them to 96 or '12?

The stats don't mean anything, the '15 team was not a well rounded team. Was great in some aspects, and mediocre in others. One of the best defensive teams I've ever seen, yes. But their offense never became great. never.
The bold. Oh God it hurts.

How can you compare them to '12? They were better in every goddamn overall quality metric adjusted for SOS. That's how.

You guys point to one game that they lost against a team that was far, far better than either team that '12 lost to - as if that changes the rest of the season where '15 was better in the majority of available metrics, including all the comprehensive adjusted rating systems. Also, you're acting like they rolled like '96 through the tourney, when they didn't, and they didn't play anyone in the same universe as Wisconsin in the tournament, either.

They got super great draws in the F4 against Louisville and a soft KU team that lucked out when UNC was playing some kid named Stillman White at PG. We won both by single digits. And again, they had more single digit games over the season than '15.

The only team '12 played that was as good as Wisconsin was UNC (when they were healthy), and we won that on a last second holy-shit-did-he-just-do-that AD block AT RUPP.

SEC was weak? Uh, excuse me - in both years, there was ONE non-UK ranked team (Florida and Arkansas, respectively), and they both were in the teens.

'12 - four SEC bids (9, 7, 5, 1)

'15 - five SEC bids (11, 10, 9, 5, 1)


And the OOC schedules were close, as well, and if anything, it was better in '15.

And again, '15 did better against its schedule (including MOV) than any team in CBB since '96, which includes '12 UK.


Lol, they lost to a 4 seed (that would be a 1 seed the next season with nearly the same team) on the road by 1 point in an extremely hostile environment, on a last second shot. Then lost to another 4 seed with multiple NBA players that they had already beaten twice. And that Vandy team was better than any other SEC team this year, not to mention the Florida team that made the Elite 8.
That Vandy team was a 5 seed, actually, but let's talk about that then. That team lost to a 4 and 5 seed - let's see how this year's team did against teams in that ballpark (3-6 seeds):

Louisville - 8 point W away
Providence - 20 point W home
ND - 1 point W neutral
UNC - 14 point W home
Arkansas - 17 point W home, 15 point W neutral
West Virginia - 39 point W neutral


Gee, that looks like a perfect 7-0 record to me with a giant margin.

Again, '12 had more single digit wins, 2 losses against teams in a range that '15 blew the pants off of, played in an SEC with fewer tourney teams, had an OOC conference that was the same or slightly worse with one amazing opponent at the top and fewer good teams at the mid level, and had a worse MOV vs both ranked opponents and opponents in general. They had a 10 point win against Old Dominion to match up nicely with '15s 10 point win vs Columbia.


Some of you emotional thinkers have this magical foggy memory that has you believing that you benched 400 when you were young, the sun shone just a little bit brighter back in the day, Anthony Davis was 8'9 and playing at his current NBA MVP level -

Just take a damn second to stop and contemplate the psychology 101 biases you are exhibiting. When you reminisce about something that you're fond of from the past and forget all of its flaws to compare it to something modern, you're being primitive and simple.

Then apply some stats 101 knowledge and realize how dumb it is to turn around in retrospect and talk down about a team that outperformed any other since '96 by every metric over a game that they had a 30% chance of losing because the other team was way the hell better than anybody '12 played in the tournament.

What if '12 had met that healthy version of UNC in April and had lost by single digits, as they could've done at Rupp if not for that amazing block?

Would they suddenly be knocked down 20 pegs on your quality of team scale, because they met an amazing team and a couple things went the wrong way in a single 3 minute span? If so, you're a simpleton. That's all there is to it.

I know some of you like to believe in Disney movie magic, forget about statistics and variables you can't account for, you just want so hard to believe that there were just teams that "refuse to lose" and if they just uphold that attitude, then they can't fail, and that includes '12 but not '15.

"No way '12 was losing", right?

Yeah, no, that's just idiotic. If a healthy UNC were on our 6 game path to the tourney, '12 wins the whole thing no more than 30% of the time (because UNC was like a 60/40 game, AT BEST).

If you're talking about a pro tournament with 5 or 7 game series, ONLY THEN can you really say "no way they're losing" (if you're sufficiently talented), because you might get beat, but your talent + gumption and perseverance, if high enough, can carry you through over the fatigue and pain and stress in enough times in those late game scenarios that over 7 games, it's just really hard for little random variables to overcome all those factors.

But in a single game elimination tournament, you get stuff like '91 UNLV losing in the exact same way as we did - won a close single digit game and then turned around in the F4 and lost a very close one to an excellent team.

Does it mean they just weren't good enough? Of course not. Does it mean they didn't have the killer instinct, X factor, "refuse to lose", whatever? Of course not. In the crunch time of a game, all it takes is 2-3 bogus calls or bad bounces or incredibly low-percentage shots going in to change the outcome.

In a 7 game series, the dominant team just shrugs it off and finishes the job. In a 1 game series, the dominant team goes home after ruining people all season, and trolling rival fans and slowpokes from one's own fanbase start to draw big-picture conclusions about the team that would get them flunked out of the most basic stats class.

Embarrassing.
 
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You're just quoting statistics, that's fine. Sports are more than statistics.

The 2012 top 6 was better than anyone we had this year except for Towns. They were better players. They were more skilled, more versatile. After that, clearly, it drops off, but in a one game scenario I don't think the extra depth '15 has is a huge factor. Of course Davis wasn't the player then that he is today, but he was still good enough to win NPOY and be called the best prospect since Lebron.

This year's team got it done with overwhelming size power. And even then, there were games we couldn't rebound. We just wore teams down. When Aaron and Booker made threes, we won by 20. But the individual talent was overrated.
 
You're just quoting statistics, that's fine. Sports are more than statistics.

The 2012 top 6 was better than anyone we had this year except for Towns. They were better players. They were more skilled, more versatile. After that, clearly, it drops off, but in a one game scenario I don't think the extra depth '15 has is a huge factor. Of course Davis wasn't the player then that he is today, but he was still good enough to win NPOY and be called the best prospect since Lebron.

This year's team got it done with overwhelming size power. And even then, there were games we couldn't rebound. We just wore teams down. When Aaron and Booker made threes, we won by 20. But the individual talent was overrated.
I'm quoting statistics, like the actual outcomes when they actual played people - the stuff that actually happened. In reality.

You're right about 1-6 but who gives a crap? '10 had a more talented top 5 than '96, and '96 was 50 times the team that '10 was.
 
I'm quoting statistics, like the actual outcomes when they actual played people - the stuff that actually happened. In reality.

You're right about 1-6 but who gives a crap? '10 had a more talented top 5 than '96, and '96 was 50 times the team that '10 was.

10 would give 96 a hell of a game, pressing Wall would have been a problem for them.

Regardless, you can live in your world of numbers, that's fine. We just disagree.
 
The 2012 team was a 1 in 20 years team more than last year's team. I never thought the 2012 team would lose a game and they only lost 2 one on a buzzer beater on the road and another when they were tied in the SEC finals and fell apart in the 5 final minutes for some unknown reason but in the NCAA tournament they were never challenged winning ever game and never really ever being in trouble in any game. Anthony Davis was a once in a 20 year player.
 
Man......

The 2012 team was a CHAMPION and did it EASILY. The 2015 barely made it past the elite eight. The 2015 team is not as good, didn't look as good, and didn't have a MKG or an AD on it. The stats are simply wrong. The 2012 team would win a national championship more times than not if given opportunities. I question whether or not the 2015 team would run into the same issues no matter how many times they got the chance. This team had flaws.

You can deny that and point to stats and scream GD and rant and rave until the your face turns purple to blue. It won't change the facts. 2012 had champions. 2015 did not. Thats the end.
 
Disagree. Last year's team maybe 1 in 50 yrs. Nine McD's and 7 leave for the pros. The most talented team from top to bottom maybe in history.

Still not enough to win it all.

Sorry but...just no. Last season's team was very, very good but by the end of the season clearly wasn't even the best for just that one year. That team was "2 per year" quality, give or take. Far, FAr, FAR from being the best in history. Hell, it wasn't even OUR best team in the last 4 years.
 
10 would give 96 a hell of a game, pressing Wall would have been a problem for them.

Regardless, you can live in your world of numbers, that's fine. We just disagree.
'96s MOV was 10 ppg higher than '10s - against a harder schedule. They're not even in the same universe.

At some point, you people who roll your eyes at actually using concrete stats have to come back to reality.

You can only float around in the land of unicorns and rainbows and "eye tests" for so long. If the eye test was anywhere near as valuable as advanced metrics, then sports teams at every level would be falling over each other trying to hire old timers who "just know" when they see the right kind of talent - they'd be encouraging a revival of the long 2 in the NBA and poking the holes in this newfangled computer knowledge.

Instead, pretty much every NBA team has a full time stats department now, and every arena just installed super high speed cameras to monitor all the game action and break every play, movement, and position on the court into percentages.

There's plenty of room for old timers who don't care for stats to stick around if they are able to thwart the new thinkers - but they haven't, because stats are just breaking down reality into chunks and trying to interpret it as free from feelings and emotion of the moment as possible.

I know '15 leaves a big lump in your stomach and remembering '12 brings joy to you. That's the case for me too. I know that AD is a year away from being the best player on the planet. I know that '12 was one of the best teams of the last the two decades.

But none of that changes that '15 performed better for the time they were out there on the court.

The only thing that doesn't have a bias in this conversation between me and you are the numbers and the algorithms that disinterested third parties have developed to give them predictive power.
 
Disagree. Last year's team maybe 1 in 50 yrs. Nine McD's and 7 leave for the pros. The most talented team from top to bottom maybe in history.

Still not enough to win it all.

What made this year's team so dominant was their depth. Once Alex Poythress went down and Cal started going away from the platoons, the less and less dominant the team became.

Unfortunately when UK started to play only 6 or 7 guys then although they're still very good and still had a chance at the title, they really weren't much different in terms of winning it all as Duke, Wisconsin, Arizona etc.

I agree that last year's team was close to 1 in 50 years, but when you end up misusing your strength (which in this case was their depth), then it doesn't really matter.
 
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What made this year's team so dominant was their depth. Once Alex Poythress went down and Cal started going away from the platoons, the less and less dominant the team became.

Unfortunately when UK started to play only 6 or 7 guys then although they're still very good and still had a chance at the title, they really weren't much different in terms of winning it all as Duke, Wisconsin, Arizona etc.

I agree that last year's team was close to 1 in 50 years, but when you end up misusing your strength (which in this case was their depth), then it doesn't really matter.
I agree Jon. This team would have averaged a minimum of 80 pts a game if we had an offensive minded coach. Hopefully, he has learned from this, but with his ego, I'm not holding my breath.
 
I agree that the '12 and '96 teams were better than the team that lost to Wisconsin. If Cal had stayed with the 5 for 5 platooning this might have been a special team. Some of their OOC games were simply amazing, but it was because of depth and players giving 110% for short periods. When we went away from our strength we became one of MANY teams that were at the top of the list. By the end I wasn't confident against Wisconsin or Notre Dame either! Maybe next years team will surprise us and make another run to the final four! GO CATS!!!!!!
 
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