I was honest in my last thread buddy. It was you who refused to answer simple questions.
Seeing your comment above^^^ makes me glad I stopped wasting my time and energy trying to get anything close to a coherent response from you.
Whatever. It was a stupid take on the entire situation and mentioning Nazi Germany and by default hitler... When discussing the confederate flag situation is hyperbole and downright sophomoric
Let's see... Are you from Louisville? I take it you don't believe me about my questions regarding Christianity.
I went to Our Lady Of Lourdes catholic school as a child and Holy Angels Academy for high school.
I've had doubts for the last couple of years, major doubts... Which is why I was asking those questions. Just because you could not answer the questions in ANY way whatsoever doesn't make me a "faker" who was just trying to get one over in you.
SMH.
I think it's very relevant to the situation related to the post I was responding too. There is a large segment of the population that doesn't know history. And the way it's treated it's very similar to that situation with what they did with the book burnings. Just erase it and act like it never happened. You may not like it, and that's fine, you're more than welcome to your opinion. I was not comparing it to nazis in any other way.
and no I'm not from Louisville.
You were getting answers but it became obvious that you weren't going to accept any of them from anyone. As you were called out continuously on it by both sides of the argument. Let's not bog this thread down, no one here cares about that, it's over.
No, I was not called out continuesly by both sides. That's just a lie bro.
And no, you never gave answers. At all. You just kept dodging the answers and encouraged me to talk to a priest/pastor.
Your "answers" we're very vague and literally didn't touch on any of the questions posed. At all.
I get it, it's a fair position, but it's not a redneck position to support the freedom.
As far as your reasoning, I guess we are going to skip the part where the United States and the north implemented Jim Crow, which in some cases was as detrimental to the future of the African American population as slavery was. I know it's an eye roller, as is all should be, but the American flag stood as a sign of oppression for generations and generations to the slaves. Because the north was better at coning them in and spitting them out to gain ground, doesn't mean the American flag should be any less offensive if the civil war is the reasoning. This is a politicized issue, nothing more.
As far as Calipari giving a statement, we are now at the point in this country where it's OK to give the politically correct answer, even if it offends the majority, because the media will back the position. It's all about optics as the MM sees it, and the MM also defines it. I'm okay however with a guy from the northeast being opposed to the southern confederate flag.(again shocker)
Ima get out before the PC soldiers bring the guns (err "weapons")
Offends the majority?? Surely you are not speaking of the confederate flag. I personally do not know a single person that supports that racist crap. It is offensive no matter how you try to spin it. The majority people I surround myself do not support it and I'm sure the great state of Kentucky is the same way. I'm sure majority of Kentuckians would not support such an offensive symbol.
There is something nostalgic about the Civil War. It was the most significant internal event that shaped our country and impacted many lives in many ways. So, no doubt from all the shows, people who participate in events, battlefields that are protected, historical sites, etc. that there is an emotional connection for most citizens. The Rebel flag is part of it, good or bad. However, it has no purpose flying over Capitals today, or at Governmental sites. It is a no-brainer to take it down. Save it in museums. That's the only place it belongs. And, for Tipton to ask Cal his opinion was stupid. Tipton's next questions: Cal, how do you feel about gay rights? Who are you voting for President? Should Kentucky still be called a Commonwealth? When you talked about ice cream....vanilla or chocolate?
I don't care what he thinks about the flag. For it or against it. All I care about is his coaching.
There is history in flying the Confederate flag, but it isn't the history that's usually referred to. Flying the Confederate flag was revived to counter the Civil Rights movement. To put the fear of God into people who wanted their rights. Bringing it down has nothing to do with obliterating history. It has to do with not using the power of the government to affirm the denial of rights. Anyone can fly their own Confederate flag from their house, put a decal on their car, sew a patch on their jacket, etc. But the time of George Wallace standing in the courthouse door is passed. Those weren't proud times, anyway.
I drive through a large Hispanic section of Lexington, when I have to cut through there - I see loads and loads of Mexican flags, bumper-stickers and other items. If someone wants to fly a flag to demonstrate their southern heritage or because they see it as a flag of rebellion, why have a double-standard and ignore the Mexicans?
Governmental vs. personal display. I don't see a lot of governmental displays of the Mexican flag. There may be. Do you know of any? I imagine that a state government pitching in behind the Reconquista would draw some attention. Maybe even a little anger. (Just a smidgen because we're so laid back about our politics in this country.)
I'm not real big on the confederate flag but I loved the Dukes of Hazzard as a kid so...
I get that there is a segment of the population that is nostalgic about the confederate flag. It reminds them that there was a time that their ancestors were more free than they are today - at least in their minds.
However, there is another segment of the population that views this flag differently. For them, it's a reminder of a time when their ancestors were brutalized and enslaved.
It's easy to say people shouldn't be offended, but sometimes it's better to be sensitive to the feelings of others. If the CF, for whatever reason, evokes positive emotions in you, at least be cognizant of the fact that it may illicit emotions that are just as strong on the opposite end of the spectrum for others.
I would hope that even those who feel strongly about the CF in a positive way, would understand why it might sicken and sadden others.
I get that there is a segment of the population that is nostalgic about the confederate flag. It reminds them that there was a time that their ancestors were more free than they are today - at least in their minds.
However, there is another segment of the population that views this flag differently. For them, it's a reminder of a time when their ancestors were brutalized and enslaved.
It's easy to say people shouldn't be offended, but sometimes it's better to be sensitive to the feelings of others. If the CF, for whatever reason, evokes positive emotions in you, at least be cognizant of the fact that it may illicit emotions that are just as strong on the opposite end of the spectrum for others.
I would hope that even those who feel strongly about the CF in a positive way, would understand why it might sicken and sadden others.
Weavers, i try not to lie, and you were most definitely called put by both sides.
I told you I didn't have all the answers and apparently any that satisfied you, but they do me. Drop it in this thread. If you want to discuss this privately email me
I wasn't referring to the confederate flag issue weavers. I was referring to our history and the way it's being revised, it didn't just start last week.
In the same week the SCOTUS handed down decisions on ACA, gay marriage and the EPA, all of which were more important than the flag. I wonder why he didn't ask him about them?
I have no beef with people sharing their views on this issue, but isn't this better suited for The Paddock. It stopped being about Cal's statement and turned into something unrelated to him or UK basketball.
The "suppress history" gag is a good one. But chattel slavery and Jim Crow aren't the only things that have ever happened in the South. Hookers were named for the New Orleans red light ladies, so maybe Louisiana could fly some "Merry Widow" lingerie.
I don't believe it is a gag, it's actually happening. Look around, they're trying to remove historical markers around the country right now.
Much less what is being taught to people in schools.
I understand people being upset, but at least take the time to understand 150 years ago was very different than it is today.
Probably because Cal coaches in the SEC? If you're old enough to remember, Ole Miss' cheerleaders used to run out on the field/court with a giant rebel flag. And the only part of the country people give that flag any respect or credence is SEC country. Just putting 2 and 2 together here.
There are plenty of sources to find out American history. I'd bet there are literally millions of books available.
The mass murder in Charleston seems to have catalyzed American feeling that fringe elements and beliefs had been indulged too much. As for state sanctioned flags and monuments to chattel slavery? I've always found them weird and dismaying. Americans aren't alone in trying to put a shine on crap. I think the greatest mass murderer of all time -- Tamerlane -- has statues and paintings honoring him all over the place in central Asia. He killed something like 70 million people and only eased off when he ran out of people to kill.
Crushed is a strong word when looking at how things actually unfolded. The infamous Kansas quote of "running out of time" is more applicable. In reality, resources.
As far as treason against the US. One could argue they were taking the constitutional stance of limited federal government and States rights while trying to secede peacefully until forced to make a decision between relinquishing power to the Feds or standing their ground.
Regardless, Cal answered as expected and eloquently as always. Idk why a ky reporter would want to try to corner a Kentucky coach in a position that could hurt the university potentially.
It wasn't a literal comparison to book burning. I didn't mean we were taking books out in the street and burning.
What I meant was there has been a major push to white wash history, anyone that has even attempted to look up what actually transpired prior to the civil war knows what happened.
Agreeing with the South that it had a constitutional right to secede doesn't mean you're a racist, or agreed with slavery. But you've got to put in perspective as it was a very different world then.
And Tipton only asked Cal that to get a rise out of the fans. He knew how Cal would answer and he knew it was get a rise out of some dumb fans. Hoping ESPN would pick up on it with the racist UK narrative, that's all it was.
Nicely done.
You make another subtle but valid point. It is very difficult to evaluate the issues that prevailed in the context of that time period by the social and legal norms of today in the United States. It is absolutely improper to judge the actions taken during that time by todays legal and ethical code.
You also make a good point when contrasting the legal status of the rebellion of the original 13 colonies versus the secession of the southern states. That said, the discussion is rather academic once a state of war is declared. In the later case, the trial is held on the battlefield in lieu of the courtroom. As we all know, to the victor go the spoils and the loser carries the guilt.
While I don't plan to enter the political and philosophical discussion of the confederate flag, that flag was once flown by a troops representing a sovereign nation. As such, it is an historical artifact as should be afforded the respect given to any other such artifact.
I say that to say this. It has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with Kentucky basketball or NCAA basketball or NCAA sports in general, save perhaps some mascots at some schools may have used it as a prop. To bring it up in the context of a discussion with the UK Basketball Coach as though he has any insight to the issue or the flag had any relevance to Kentucky athletics is ridiculous. It completely overlooked the sensitivities surrounding that symbol and was, in my opinion, a callous display of worst kind of racism, that of ignorance and trivialism. Tipton, in his zeal to embarrass Calipari, succeeded only in embarrassing himself and displaying his true colors for all to see. What a foul little man.
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I understood what you were saying; most people are black and white and do not read into metaphors and theories well. I have mixed feelings on it; however, Cal said the only thing that he could say. We have revised history to the point that fictionalism has become a real possibility. It's all about symbolism and impressions; some view it as a symbol of heritage, freedom, and pride; others see it as a symbol of oppression and slavery. I have no dog in this fight; however, I follow what the constitution says. People can fly Confederate flags personally. However, in a government setting, that "freedom of speech" should be spoken by the people. I say that the State of South Carolina needs to speak, and exercise their constitutional right. This is not as black and white as one may believe. Have a vote on it, and be done with it. My feelings on it don't matter; what matters is the well-being of our nation as a whole, and how it correlates to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, as that was what our Nation is predicated upon. I don't need facts here; I use intuition and abstract common sense to arrive at my opinion.
Lakercat, I wasn't implying Cal should've answered a different way. Sorry if it came across that way.
My original post was basically a straw that broke the camels back response to a poster. There's a whole lot of impulse reaction flying around the country right now. It sickens me that the murders in charleston have taken a back seat to a pic of a lone man holding a confederate battle flag, it's ridiculous.
My original post was basically a straw that broke the camels back response to a poster. There's a whole lot of impulse reaction flying around the country right now. It sickens me that the murders in charleston have taken a back seat to a pic of a lone man holding a confederate battle flag, it's ridiculous.
Well said. I agree completely. If a private citizen wants to hang that flag in his home, car or other private property--fine by me--but it's ridiculous to still have them on government grounds. It's way past time for those to come down.
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I don't understand the comments about white washing history. By allowing the flag to fly on the SC state grounds, and say it didn't represent an insurrection designed solely for the purpose of continuing to own fellow human beings is the white wash. We are now finally saying - this flag, the one that was put up in 1961 to protest desegregation and the passage of civil rights legislation - needs to come down. It does not represent what America stands for, and no longer represents what SC stands for.
White washing history is not recognizing the zits on our American faces. It is in the recognition and popping of those zits that we honor our country and its founding.
White washing history is not recognizing the zits on our American faces. It is in the recognition and popping of those zits that we honor our country and its founding.
Unless you live in South Carolina you have no say in what they have on their capital grounds. It's up to them to decide.
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I get it, it's a fair position, but it's not a redneck position to support the freedom.
As far as your reasoning, I guess we are going to skip the part where the United States and the north implemented Jim Crow, which in some cases was as detrimental to the future of the African American population as slavery was. I know it's an eye roller, as is all should be, but the American flag stood as a sign of oppression for generations and generations to the slaves. Because the north was better at coning them in and spitting them out to gain ground, doesn't mean the American flag should be any less offensive if the civil war is the reasoning. This is a politicized issue, nothing more.
As far as Calipari giving a statement, we are now at the point in this country where it's OK to give the politically correct answer, even if it offends the majority, because the media will back the position. It's all about optics as the MM sees it, and the MM also defines it. I'm okay however with a guy from the northeast being opposed to the southern confederate flag.(again shocker)
Ima get out before the PC soldiers bring the guns (err "weapons")
The simple answer..regardless of what you think of the flag..many African Americans are offended by it, depending on where they are from of course....the majority of our players are.........African american. Why even answer otherwise about the flag.
Bill, I was AGREEING with you. I understood exactly what you were saying. Tipton's intent was obvious, just as you stated. I can read between the lines in your post. It looks like your "unless you live in South Carolina....." post agrees with me too.
Outrage and heartbreak are all that have been used, and those can easily cross state lines. "Say" is an imaginary issue. Nobody has claimed "say".
It sounds awfully close to "outside agitators" and we really don't need to go there again.
