I am the biggest Duke hater there is but this recent news that they lead with Ingram and than the PG reclassifying which solved their biggest issue next year of not having a PG. They will be young but you cant deny that they will be top 3 team with the talent they have coming in. At first with only Kennard and Jeter their class looked weak but they just added the top 2016 PG who is reclassing and tonight they should get Ingram. Add them to Matt Jones and the other returnees and coach K has the nucleus to comoete for two in a row. I hate it but its the truth.
If Duke lands Ingram they have to be pre season Top 5
- Thread starter BigBlu_2002
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Pre-season means nothing. Never cared about polls before conference play. We were #1 the entire season until the FF. Didn't help us.
Big difference will be they won't have anyone close to Okafor down low. And we still don't know if M. Jones and Allen playing starter minutes will shoot as good as T. Jones and Cook did. Also, will Ingram be as good a 3 as Winslow was. Yes they will be talented and one of the favorites. But we are still a long way from calling them THE favorite. If we land Murray or Diallo plus Mulder, I like our team a LOT.
Big difference will be they won't have anyone close to Okafor down low. And we still don't know if M. Jones and Allen playing starter minutes will shoot as good as T. Jones and Cook did. Also, will Ingram be as good a 3 as Winslow was. Yes they will be talented and one of the favorites. But we are still a long way from calling them THE favorite. If we land Murray or Diallo plus Mulder, I like our team a LOT.
They won't have a legit low post scoring option like they did this year. They'll be good though. Field looks pretty weak next year at the top.
Debatable. They are returning one guy that averaged over 6 points per game.
It's making the assumption that Allen will be awesome, even though he had more 0 point games this season than double figure games (including more 0 point games than double figure point games in the conference and NCAA tournaments).
If they get ingram, he is a 6'9 barely 200 pound kid that will be forced to play a lot of PF with their roster.
The rest of their recruits are ranked where guys could be really good or could be 2 years away. I haven't been impressed with jeter.
They could be elite or they could have a disastrous season. No one coming in is on the level of Okafor, Winslow or jones.
It's making the assumption that Allen will be awesome, even though he had more 0 point games this season than double figure games (including more 0 point games than double figure point games in the conference and NCAA tournaments).
If they get ingram, he is a 6'9 barely 200 pound kid that will be forced to play a lot of PF with their roster.
The rest of their recruits are ranked where guys could be really good or could be 2 years away. I haven't been impressed with jeter.
They could be elite or they could have a disastrous season. No one coming in is on the level of Okafor, Winslow or jones.
Good point about Allen. I think people overreacted to his big game. He had the advantage of being the "other guy" next to their big 4. With all of them gone, and if he is a starter, defenses will be focusing on him more.
PG - Thornton
SG - Allen/ Kennard
SF - Ingram/ Jones
PF - Jefferson
C - Jeter/ Obi
They'll be loaded after Ingram declares for Duke. Their frontline is better than some of you are saying. Obi is solid. Jeter is a top 10 freshman. Jones is a returning starter on a national title team; and Allen was the second best player in the national title game.
They won't be as good as they were last year, but neither will Kentucky.
SG - Allen/ Kennard
SF - Ingram/ Jones
PF - Jefferson
C - Jeter/ Obi
They'll be loaded after Ingram declares for Duke. Their frontline is better than some of you are saying. Obi is solid. Jeter is a top 10 freshman. Jones is a returning starter on a national title team; and Allen was the second best player in the national title game.
They won't be as good as they were last year, but neither will Kentucky.
Duke is going to be Duke always a chance to win it all and as much as I hate to say things like this they will get the yellow brick road to the championship, Coach K is the dean of coaches now and has adopted Cals strategy with oads and appears to be the frontrunner for many of those guys....he has so many contacts and he is hard to overcome and a thorn in our side. Plus he seems to win when he makes it to Final Four where we have faltered many times.
I would say Jeter as Top 10 is a bit of a stretch. He will get his chances, though.
Before adding Thornton, this next Duke team was looking like a 8-8 ACC team. Thornton and Ingram would not push them that far (to top 5 team).
But Thornton was a big addition, since they had NO PG until then.
This will be a typical Duke team, lots of shooters, not particularly strong on the inside.
Inside, 2 positions: Jeter, Jefferson & Plumlee. That's it! You could compare Jefferson & Plumlee to Lee & Willis. Jeter is no Labissiere, and they have no player like Poythress.
Outside (w/out Ingram), 3 positions: Jones, Allen, Kennard, Thornton. That is a pretty good group, the first 3 are interchangeable at the 2 & 3 spots. But is it really any better than Briscoe, Ulis, Matthews, Hawkins? Maybe, but only slightly.
Outside (w/ Ingram): Ingram, Jones, Allen, Kennard, Thornton. Adding him really does help their depth, and he might be the best scorer on their team.
But just looking at the ACC, I think UNC is 1, losing only Tokoto. I got UVA at 2, losing Anderson & Atkins off of a deep top 5 team. Next (before adding Ingram) I have Miami & FSU at 3 & 4. Miami (10-8 last year) only loses a bench contributor, and FSU (8-10) loses no one but adds 5* Bacon, and a couple of 4* players. Duke loses their best 4 players off what was not a deep team. Their best offensive options are a guy who played <10mpg or a FR. If they add Ingram, then I might bump Duke ahead of FSU.
Top 20 team, but NOT top 5 team.
But Thornton was a big addition, since they had NO PG until then.
This will be a typical Duke team, lots of shooters, not particularly strong on the inside.
Inside, 2 positions: Jeter, Jefferson & Plumlee. That's it! You could compare Jefferson & Plumlee to Lee & Willis. Jeter is no Labissiere, and they have no player like Poythress.
Outside (w/out Ingram), 3 positions: Jones, Allen, Kennard, Thornton. That is a pretty good group, the first 3 are interchangeable at the 2 & 3 spots. But is it really any better than Briscoe, Ulis, Matthews, Hawkins? Maybe, but only slightly.
Outside (w/ Ingram): Ingram, Jones, Allen, Kennard, Thornton. Adding him really does help their depth, and he might be the best scorer on their team.
But just looking at the ACC, I think UNC is 1, losing only Tokoto. I got UVA at 2, losing Anderson & Atkins off of a deep top 5 team. Next (before adding Ingram) I have Miami & FSU at 3 & 4. Miami (10-8 last year) only loses a bench contributor, and FSU (8-10) loses no one but adds 5* Bacon, and a couple of 4* players. Duke loses their best 4 players off what was not a deep team. Their best offensive options are a guy who played <10mpg or a FR. If they add Ingram, then I might bump Duke ahead of FSU.
Top 20 team, but NOT top 5 team.
I agree IF WE ADD MURRAY and Diallo WE ARE PRE SEASON NO 1 and once again the team to beat. However, Murray is long shot. We are top 5 with Diallo as he is a game changer just like Skal is.
I don't think that'll be the lineup. Coach K will start Ingram at the 4, just like he started Winslow at the 4 this year, and Parker at the 4 the year before. That's how Coach K does it nowadays, he likes guys at the PF position who have elite small forward caliber perimeter skills (btw, also the same way he coaches the Team USA teams, too, where he always plays guys like Durant and Carmelo at the 4, instead of the 3).
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They'll be tough, for sure. Ingram is an elite talent. Sucks that he's leaning towards dook. We could really use him and I think Cal made a valiant effort to land the kid.
Sean Obi is a transfer, one of only four I think that K has ever taken (Curry, Jones, McCleod I think are the other three?) 6'9, 270 sophomore center. Averaged 12 and 9 in C-USA (led the conference in rebounds, the second highest freshman in the country in rebounding) and led Rice in scoring. Had a really good shooting percentage as well. Big guy, big wingspan, definitely a below-the-rim player. Will get some time at C, but not sure if he is ready to step into major major minutes.
The PF and C position will actually feature a LOT of size and some decent talent/experience... Plumlee has really come on (remember, he has two seven foot brothers who weren't very good their first few years but eventually matured into NBA players... and Marshall showed a lot of growth by the end of last year) and Amile Jefferson is a very underrated guy with a GREAT feel around the basket and who can play some good, long-armed defense. Jeter is ranked around 10 overall. Very long, very bouncy, great rebounder and shot blocker who can dunk up close... huge wingspan. Not a OAD threat because his offense isn't great, but could get to the league in year two, after a bit of development. No stars in the PF/C role, but a lot of really good, beefy, strong, long, D-minded bodies with some skill.
Duke will be good, but very young, unproven, and without the talent of the freshmen trio from this year. Likely not winning any titles or anything, but should be pretty solid. Ingram, Thornton, Allen, Jones, and Kennard can all score. Should be a lot of guard and SF scoring, with the big boys providing a lot of muscle inside. Defensively should be a real brute of a team, although the offense won't necessarily be (although with Thorntons ability to pass inside and off the dribble and the bigs ability to flush it, you might see more buckets from the PF/C spot than you might at first expect.)
Definitely a top 10ish team all year, with the ability go go higher, given how weak the year looks overall.
The PF and C position will actually feature a LOT of size and some decent talent/experience... Plumlee has really come on (remember, he has two seven foot brothers who weren't very good their first few years but eventually matured into NBA players... and Marshall showed a lot of growth by the end of last year) and Amile Jefferson is a very underrated guy with a GREAT feel around the basket and who can play some good, long-armed defense. Jeter is ranked around 10 overall. Very long, very bouncy, great rebounder and shot blocker who can dunk up close... huge wingspan. Not a OAD threat because his offense isn't great, but could get to the league in year two, after a bit of development. No stars in the PF/C role, but a lot of really good, beefy, strong, long, D-minded bodies with some skill.
Duke will be good, but very young, unproven, and without the talent of the freshmen trio from this year. Likely not winning any titles or anything, but should be pretty solid. Ingram, Thornton, Allen, Jones, and Kennard can all score. Should be a lot of guard and SF scoring, with the big boys providing a lot of muscle inside. Defensively should be a real brute of a team, although the offense won't necessarily be (although with Thorntons ability to pass inside and off the dribble and the bigs ability to flush it, you might see more buckets from the PF/C spot than you might at first expect.)
Definitely a top 10ish team all year, with the ability go go higher, given how weak the year looks overall.
Misspoke. Twice in 3 years. Made it past the Sweet 16 twice in the decade leading up to this year despite great seeds.
Point being, I know everything that happened yesterday is the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER, but Coach K had struggled a bit in the tourney of late leading into this season.
Who's their go to guy on the inside? Only reason Duke won this year is because UK choked, and they had a dominant inside presence.
Talent-wise, Duke will be up there. By my count, they would have 7 Burger Boys (Jefferson, Plumlee, Jones, Allen, Ingram, Jeter, Kennard) and an 8th (Thornton) had he not reclassified. Any team with that much talent would be a contender.
I mean, UK was pre-season #1 bringing in a class of Randle, Young, Harrison Twins, Johnson and Lee...after returning only 2 contributors from an NIT team. This class isn't comparible, but we're still talking about five 5-star recruits and a graduate transfer, with more returning than that UK team.
I mean, UK was pre-season #1 bringing in a class of Randle, Young, Harrison Twins, Johnson and Lee...after returning only 2 contributors from an NIT team. This class isn't comparible, but we're still talking about five 5-star recruits and a graduate transfer, with more returning than that UK team.
Hope that we can get a reclassification to go our way the way Duke was able to, hope that having the wrong shoe affiliation doesn't screw us, hope that Bill Self's bizarre recruiting success head-to-head vs. Calipari doesn't continue, and hope that a JUCO pans out for us for once.
Two National Championships in the past six seasons along with a third regional final appearance trumps a couple turkey defeats. Only UCONN has as many in said time span and they have some DNP for other tourney appearances.
Losing in the first round is NOT worse than missing the tournament completely despite the subtle spins that it somehow is.
The difference is, most of their all stars are all stars because they went to duke, not because they're awesome...
Take away allen's fluke one game performance against an awful defensive team and who would you rather have?
ulis/hawkins - Thornton
Briscoe - allen
Matthews/? - Kennard/jones
poythress/willis - Ingram
Skal/lee - jefferson/jeter/plumlee
I see one position where they are currently better than us and if we get brown or Murray I'm not taking anyone for them over our guys.
You've been past the Sweet 16 3x in 11 years, despite always having a great seed.
As far as your BS little shot at UK, Noel doesn't get hurt, UK makes their usual run in March.
Other than successful college basketball, Duke is widely known for world class arrogance.
Obviously, you have had a sizable hand in that achievement.
As long as K is the coach, the devils will be on top. Duke is killing on recruited right now, Ingram is a game changer.
Except when they go through huge stretches of being no real factor in the NCAA Tournament.
What Krzyzewski does is keep Duke in the discussion every year, hovering inside the top 10, almost always viewed as a FF threat. You know who does that even better than Krzyzewski? John Calipari.
The difference is that Cal hasn't performed as well on the biggest stage. That's something that Cal needs to consider, but to act like K has a formula that's just vastly superior to what Cal is doing is to completely dismiss the reality of the last decade basically because of 1 game. Cal has won 13 more NCAA Tournament games than Krzyzewski the last 10 years. That's not a small number. But of course you're always going to have some people ignore that because it's 2 titles for K to 1 for Cal.
Maybe K is about to go on a run, most likely similar to what we saw from 98-2002 (which, BTW, still only resulted in 1 title). Duke has always recruited really well, but they had fallen off a little in recent years from the level they were at in the late 90's/early 2000's, seeming to become too reliant on upper middle-class (and mainly white) players. They had lost some cachet, but K has leveraged USA Basketball/the Olympic team, and clearly Jeff Capel has made a big difference. But the future is unwritten, and it's no sure thing that 1 special year for Duke means a dynasty run is coming. It just takes one bad night in the NCAA Tournament to make that kind of talk look stupid. And Duke has had plenty of bad nights in the NCAA Tournament.
I'm shocked a guy from Jersey would overrate Duke.
They're not even preseason #1 in the ACC. In fact, they're probably #3.
