I might be totally wrong here, but I am blaming

[reignof cats]

Everyone wants to blame Cal. Blah! Blah! Blah! Cal has been the cutting edge of college basketball the last 6 years. The last 6 years have been a blast. Cal has won about 85% of his games. This could have been higher if NN did not go down. HOW ABOUT THE PLAYERS TAKING A LITTLE ACCOUNTABILITY AS WELL? Many of these kids are going to the league in 1 or 2 years. Cal does not defend, shoot FT, shoot 3 pointers, etc. How many games has UK been blown out in the Cal era?? That's right, we are there most nights. A few lucky breaks here or there and Cal could have 3 more ships. Blaming the # 2 recruiting class a failure because of platooning. I love UK basketball but some of you guys WAY over analyze everything. GBB

All we need today is someone start another Platoon thread. Great film in 87 the last time iu was worth a damn.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Coaches negative recruited the shit out of the platoon system all year long. If someone tells you a lie over and over and over again you eventually begin to believe it even if it isn't true.

Opposing coaches have been negatively recruiting against UK for decades. IF they did regarding the platoon system, it's just a new line in an old song. I'm sure coaches weren't singing the praises of UK or Cal when Davis, Lamb, MKG, Jones, KAT, Randle, etc, etc, were being recruited as H.S. juniors and seniors.

 

[hootervillearnolds]

Can we stop the incessant claim that Cal is the best at developing guys for the nba. To me developing means taking 3 star guys and turning them into lottery or just first rounders at all.

If fifteen plus years of watching cal I remember only one of those. That is willie. Even Clappy has twice done that (oladipo and d wade).

What Cal does is deliver to the nba. Taking guys who would be (if rules allowed) none and done and keeping safe thru a season without injury or drop. Cal has done that well (rose wall cuz ad mkg etc). And that is what 5 stars like jaylen brown should want UK for.

But in the last three years Cal has had epic fails in delivery

Injuries like poy that delayed him Noel dropped from injury. Randle dropped from cramping then got hurt before rookie season. Willie also had to do a third year because of injury.

Injury is one of two big worries for OAD guys. Other coaches are reminding them that UK practice and competition means wear and tear in practice

The other worry for five stars is dropping from not looking great.
I think because they were unique as twin 5 stars the Harrisons were as high profile as they get and they dropped both years. Playing alongside another dropper in Dakari.

Other coaches at California for brown. IU for Bryant. MSU (both miss and mich versions) tell those guys that at UK you will ten shots a game (at best). Come here and get 20 shots.

Bottom line UK is not the spot for nba development and maybe not for delivery these days.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

<<<<<<<

how do you negative recruit a system that sent 7 players to the nba draft--four of them high first round locks? i'm sure most coaches 'negative recruit' in some way every year.

Easy.

• "Underachieved because Calipari couldn't even win a title with all that talent."
• "You won't get to play 30 minutes or more a game like you want because of platooning"
• "Playing time won't be guaranteed because you have to compete against a bunch of others in a platoon"
• "Won't get as many shots as you want because there are 9 other guys platooning with you"
• "Won't get to be the man of the team because there is too much talent"

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Opposing coaches have been negatively recruiting against UK for decades. IF they did regarding the platoon system, it's just a new line in an old song. I'm sure coaches weren't singing the praises of UK or Cal when Davis, Lamb, MKG, Jones, KAT, Randle, etc, etc, were being recruited as H.S. juniors and seniors.

It's a whole lot easier to negative recruit, and a whole lot more effective, when you're recruiting kids who think they are one-and-done and you can tell them they won't get more than 20-25 minutes a game because of platooning.

 

[crawfords corner]

Losing out on Newman had absolutely positively nothing to do with the platoon. I would venture it never came in to his thought process. He went to Mississippi State to play Point Guard. He knows at 6ft 3 he is on the small side to play SG in the NBA. Not that he can't do it, but that he can make more money as a PG. He can be a better version of Brandon Knight. The fact that it was close to home, his father played ball there, and Howland has put guys in to the league at a very nice clip didn't hurt.

As far as Zimmerman, Brown, and Diallo goes they have their reasons as well. Malik Newman's are the easiest to read in to. Mainly because it's out there in his own words.

 

[twocoach]

This entire post is weird.

You really think that kids are naïve enough to suddenly understand that you don't have to go to a stacked team to win it all? Recruits already knew that you can take down elite teams with a few really good players and one cold shooting night from the favorite - just look at all the horrific performances Kansas has had at the expense of mid-majors. You guys have been the footnote for a decade on why superior teams can lose on any given night. You get that, right?

Also, Duke won it all with three top 20 picks, so that kind of deflates your hollow, impotent argument.

I get that you want to bait me into an silly argument about KU's recent tourney record but I am not interested. All you have done is make my point for me.

Elite recruits Okafor, Jones and Winslow still chose to go to Duke despite the fact they were coming off of back to back Round of 64 losses. Diallo and Bragg still chose to come to Kansas despite back to back Round of 32 losses. Many Kentucky fans cannot wrap their brains around the fact that Kentucky's great run of 4 Final Fours in five years isn't enough to lure every recruit they target. Kentucky losing to Wisconsin was the final example for these kids that they can go to the school they feel best fits the biggest majority of their items on their wish list.

Kentucky just hasn't been that team for these kids this year and I would put money on seeing a bunch of kids play limited minutes and see multiple top 10 recruits losing ground in the draft (Dakari Johnson, Poythress, Harrison twins) plus a guy in Lee that played so little at the position he should be playing thanks to roster glut that NBA scouts said he should go back to school for another season and it all adds up to a bizarro spring recruiting season for Kentucky. But I'd be more than interested to hear what you think has resulted in the Kentucky o-fer this spring.

 

[twocoach]

Losing out on Newman had absolutely positively nothing to do with the platoon. I would venture it never came in to his thought process. He went to Mississippi State to play Point Guard. He knows at 6ft 3 he is on the small side to play SG in the NBA. Not that he can't do it, but that he can make more money as a PG. He can be a better version of Brandon Knight. The fact that it was close to home, his father played ball there, and Howland has put guys in to the league at a very nice clip didn't hurt.

As far as Zimmerman, Brown, and Diallo goes they have their reasons as well. Malik Newman's are the easiest to read in to. Mainly because it's out there in his own words.

Newman didn't go to Kansas because they have Mason & Graham at PG and he didn't go to Kentucky because they have Ulis and Briscoe at PG and he made it very clear he wants to get max minutes at PG in his one season in college. Agreed.

 

[twocoach]

Can we stop the incessant claim that Cal is the best at developing guys for the nba. To me developing means taking 3 star guys and turning them into lottery or just first rounders at all.

If fifteen plus years of watching cal I remember only one of those. That is willie. Even Clappy has twice done that (oladipo and d wade).

What Cal does is deliver to the nba. Taking guys who would be (if rules allowed) none and done and keeping safe thru a season without injury or drop. Cal has done that well (rose wall cuz ad mkg etc). And that is what 5 stars like jaylen brown should want UK for.

But in the last three years Cal has had epic fails in delivery

Injuries like poy that delayed him Noel dropped from injury. Randle dropped from cramping then got hurt before rookie season. Willie also had to do a third year because of injury.

Injury is one of two big worries for OAD guys. Other coaches are reminding them that UK practice and competition means wear and tear in practice

The other worry for five stars is dropping from not looking great.
I think because they were unique as twin 5 stars the Harrisons were as high profile as they get and they dropped both years. Playing alongside another dropper in Dakari.

Other coaches at California for brown. IU for Bryant. MSU (both miss and mich versions) tell those guys that at UK you will ten shots a game (at best). Come here and get 20 shots.

Bottom line UK is not the spot for nba development and maybe not for delivery these days.

AGREED. Wall, Cousins, Davis etc... are not getting developed by Cal. Those guys could go ANYWHERE and have been drafted where they were drafted. Developing guys is taking guys ranked 25 and below and making them good players and even some of that has nothing to do with development. Willie Cauley-Stein is getting drafted top 10 because he is seven feet tall and is athletic enough to keep up with a lot of smaller guys on defense. In three years of college he still hasn't developed any type of offensive skills. If he was 6'9" he would not get drafted at all.

Dakari Johnson was such an elite player in high school that Joel Embiid chose to switch schools for his senior year instead of play on the same team cause he didn't think he could beat him out. Embiid spends one year at Kansas working with Self and he is a top three pick despite two injuries while Johnson spends two years at Kentucky under Cal and will be lucky to get drafted in the first round at all. I would take Self's record of developing guys to their max out of lower ranked guys and getting them to the NBA over Cal's all day.

 

[CatColumbia]

a great deal of our recruiting problems on Cal's platoon system. Bet you will never hear those words out of Cal's mouth ever again. Can't prove anything here. Just a gut feeling.....

Cal didn't use the word "platoon", he preferred "reinforcements" lol. You know it's one of those things that we put all our eggs into the one season. Had he won the title, we would not be complaining about the recruiting struggles but we didn't...

 

[Aike]

that Smith's comments make sense? I mean...

You can go to Smith's Twitter feed and see him talk about being UL born and hating UK so pardon me for questioning his objectivity.

 

[Aike]

Well you can question it all ya want. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't mean what he says doesn't likely hold some validity.

I understand that you enjoy being contentious. When a poster who is constantly negative seeks validation from a UL/Duke source who admits to hating Kentucky, I can't help but question the poster's motives.

Frankly, it's really easy to find people who hate our team and coach and are willing to take shots at them. "Consider the source" is one of the oldest tenets of journalism, or just life, really.

 

[JonathanW]

Yes, the OP is totally wrong!

 

[C8TS]

If we would have only played a 7 man rotation, other coaches would have said negative things about how "if you go to UK, they might not even play you ... take a look at this year, you had several McDonalds All-Americans sitting on the bench getting no pt"

It's negative recruiting .. you can always come up with something negative to say.

 

[Hoskins21]

AGREED. Wall, Cousins, Davis etc... are not getting developed by Cal. Those guys could go ANYWHERE and have been drafted where they were drafted. Developing guys is taking guys ranked 25 and below and making them good players and even some of that has nothing to do with development. Willie Cauley-Stein is getting drafted top 10 because he is seven feet tall and is athletic enough to keep up with a lot of smaller guys on defense. In three years of college he still hasn't developed any type of offensive skills. If he was 6'9" he would not get drafted at all.

Dakari Johnson was such an elite player in high school that Joel Embiid chose to switch schools for his senior year instead of play on the same team cause he didn't think he could beat him out. Embiid spends one year at Kansas working with Self and he is a top three pick despite two injuries while Johnson spends two years at Kentucky under Cal and will be lucky to get drafted in the first round at all. I would take Self's record of developing guys to their max out of lower ranked guys and getting them to the NBA over Cal's all day.

Self hasn't done crap.

 

[Hoskins21]

People who say platooning is/was the problem will be the ones shouting about it all summer, which will find its way into the ears of many 2016 recruits. Just shut up about it!

 

[ukfan041]

Self hasn't done crap.

I can't help but laugh at some of these Chickenhawk fans coming over here and touting Self over Calipari...lol! I've been at every UK/KU game since Cal has been here and it hasn't been pretty or even close! Not to mention Bucknell Bill and his constant choke jobs in the Tournament since he has been at KU....EVERY time having vastly superior teams. I guess time will tell if Bragg/Diallo (with a 12th year senior in Ellis) can finally get you guys to the second weekend! It will be tough though considering you have Mason running the point and after watching WSU and their backcourt dominate in March, I'm not holding my breath for him to lead you guys anywhere! But please, continue to tout Self and his ability to develop players....it really is making me chuckle!