I Believe Cal was Blindsided By Who Declared

[MrHotDice]

i don't think Cal ever envisioned 7 players declaring for the draft off this past year's team. I think when he found out was when he said, The NBA is a man league.

In other words, some of those who declared are not ready but did it anyway.

What do my fellow posters think?

 

[akers65]

Its possible, but it might have been said to help some with childish problems
I don't know, but I do remember him saying that, and wondered who it was pointed at.

 

[UKPopcat]

I think one or two may have surprised Cal but I doubt he'd admit it. Great thing about Cal is how resourceful he can be when the unexpected recruits leave. Murray and Mulder this year and Ulis as backup for Mudiay last year are examples. I think the one time he was truly blindsided was Teague. And even then Harrow seemed like he would have been a suitable contingency plan though it didn't work out.

 

[catben]

The only 2 that have not been projected to go in the 1st round by at least one scouting expert have been the Harrisons. So I believe that Cal knew that all 7 were gone. The only one that was the least bit shocking was Booker, considering that he wasn't even ranked in the top 25 coming out of High School.

The only thing that surprises me about these highly rated recruits going elsewhere, is the fact that they waited until the end of the year to go to their home state schools. Why? If they weren't coming to UK, why wait?

 

[62bigcat]

just don't see it being the case cal talked about 6or7 going before the end of the season

 

[michaeluk26]

He talked about losing 8 players from the Bahamas on basically. He knew. Probably thought he would land a few more and we will still add a player or 2.

 

[UK_fan_41102]

The only 2 that have not been projected to go in the 1st round by at least one scouting expert have been the Harrisons. So I believe that Cal knew that all 7 were gone. The only one that was the least bit shocking was Booker, considering that he wasn't even ranked in the top 25 coming out of High School.

The only thing that surprises me about these highly rated recruits going elsewhere, is the fact that they waited until the end of the year to go to their home state schools. Why? If they weren't coming to UK, why wait?

Why not wait? They get to see who is leaving, who is coming in, and see how the coaching situation plays out at certain schools.

 

[ulismyman]

Its just disheartening to see 7 guys leave...not very smart...there are 13 lottery picks did they really think every other pick is gonna be a UK player??? If you are underclassmen and not a lottery pick....why declare

 

[akers65]

He never expected Daniel Orton to leave, he even said so.
and when he said 8 would go he was counting Alex P., who wasn't hurt at the time. So he
may have been right had Alex played all season.

 

[wildcatdonf]

I guess that it is possible that Cal didn't know that he would lose all 7, but he probably knew. I'm surprised that Booker declared because he is so young. That child won't be 19 until November I think. His body will mature some more. But we don't know how badly he needs to make some money. If he was my son, I would worry about how happy he was going to be on a team where every player is maybe 6 years older than him. We'll see. Good luck, Devin Booker.

 

[AFSTALLION13]

Its just disheartening to see 7 guys leave...not very smart...there are 13 lottery picks did they really think every other pick is gonna be a UK player??? If you are underclassmen and not a lottery pick....why declare

30 NBA teams, 16 qualify for the playoffs and the remaining 14 teams are entered in the draft lottery...

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Let's see....Cal stated publicly several times about having 6,7 and possibly 8 guys leave at the end of the year but you think it shocked him that we had 7 go?? Is that right?

 

[miracle7s]

like it or not the problem with guys declaring at UK as opposed to anywhere else is that Cal by his own admission won't ever discourage it or give the this is why you should stay side. From his own mouth on the Mike Francesca show after we won the title he did a hour long interview where he said, he gathers feedback, tells the players and parents what it is, gives them contact info of the NBA people, and let's them choose for themselves what they should do without his coercion one way or the other. After he said that Fracensca said well John surely with all the guys you have that leave after every year you can't believe they're all ready to which he replied you're right. Francesca then said well what do you tell the NBA when they inquire about those guys? Cal's response, I lie like hell, tell them they're the best guy I ever coached and are going to be future all stars. So, there in lies the problem, when Cal knows Teague, Lamb, Goodwin, Young, Harrison, Harrison, Johnson, Booker, Lyles, etc... shouldn't go he would never say you know it may be valuable for you to come and learn x and y and be in a better position to contribute when you get to the NBA. He's just you want to go? Ok, let me help you get drafted as high as I possibly can, that's a noble thing but I wonder sometimes if telling some of these kids it's all sunshine and rainbows doesn't hurt them sometimes. Sure an elite of the elite guy like Noel, Bledsoe, Knight, Randle who could of benefited from coming back but didn't need to, to ensure a long and fruitful NBA career it won't but a guy who may be able to have a 10 year career as journeyman starter or solid back up like the list I mentioned above I think not shooting them straight that they aren't ready can hurt them in the long run. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[MrHotDice]

Let's see....Cal stated publicly several times about having 6,7 and possibly 8 guys leave at the end of the year but you think it shocked him that we had 7 go?? Is that right?

No, I'm to old to ever be shocked by words but I also think saying it doesn't make it so. I really doubt anyone who has watched UK play this year thinks these 7 that declared will actually all be drafted and I also think that a couple of the 7 will fall through the cracks of the NBA. One good game does not make you ready for the rigors of the league. now if they all get drafted either first or second round then doesn't that raise another question, like how could a team lose 7 players in one year and not Win the championship?

Maybe that is the question the teams are using against us on the recruiting circuit. I guess we will see how it all shakes out but if The glass is half full or half empty only time will tell.

Just my opinion.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

like it or not the problem with guys declaring at UK as opposed to anywhere else is that Cal by his own admission won't ever discourage it or give the this is why you should stay side. From his own mouth on the Mike Francesca show after we won the title he did a hour long interview where he said, he gathers feedback, tells the players and parents what it is, gives them contact info of the NBA people, and let's them choose for themselves what they should do without his coercion one way or the other. After he said that Fracensca said well John surely with all the guys you have that leave after every year you can't believe they're all ready to which he replied your right. Francesca then said well what do you tell the NBA when they inquire about those guys? Cal's response, I lie like hell, tell them they're the best guy I ever coached and are going to be future all stars. So, there in lies the problem, when Cal knows Teague, Lamb, Goodwin, Young, Harrison, Harrison, Johnson, Booker, Lyles, etc... he would never say you know it may be valuable for you to come and learn x and y and be in a better position to contribute when you get to the NBA. He's just you want to go? Ok, let me help you get drafted as high as I possibly can, that's a noble thing but I wonder sometimes if telling some of these kids it's all sunshine and rainbows doesn't hurt them sometimes. Sure an elite of the elite guy like it won't but a guy who may be able to have a 10 year career as journeyman starter or solid back up like the list I mentioned above I think not shooting them straight that they aren't ready can hurt them in the long run. Just my 2 cents though.

Good post, Cal isn't stupid as he was coaching in the nba. He has also said these kids come from nothing and will do anything and everything he can to help them better their lives and their families lives.
The real dummies in all of this is the nba teams who draft these kids. Their is now way I'm ever drafting a kid who only averages 3 points and 3 boards a game in college. That is just stupid but hey a fool and his money part ways every day.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

No, I'm to old to ever be shocked by words but I also think saying it doesn't make it so. I really doubt anyone who has watched UK play this year thinks these 7 that declared will actually all be drafted and I also think that a couple of the 7 will fall through the cracks of the NBA. One good game does not make you ready for the rigors of the league. now if they all get drafted either first or second round then doesn't that raise another question, like how could a team lose 7 players in one year and not Win the championship?

Maybe that is the question the teams are using against us on the recruiting circuit. I guess we will see how it all shakes out but if The glass is half full or half empty only time will tell.

Just my opinion.

No argument from me on any of that lol.
Of any of our guys if I'm a nba GM I'm drafting Kat first and then Lyles and Booker as a project that's it!
You noticed I left off WCS, twins and Dakari. I know WCS is projected as a top 10 pick but I'm not waisting a pick on a guy I could get for bottom dollars in free agency. WCS is not a big money player. I think what you saw against Wisconsin is WCS. I'm not spending money on that. Biggest game of your career and your crapping turds on the court.

 

[Hoskins91]

Its just disheartening to see 7 guys leave...not very smart...there are 13 lottery picks did they really think every other pick is gonna be a UK player??? If you are underclassmen and not a lottery pick....why declare

Some of these guys are never going to be lottery picks, and you still get guaranteed money if you are a first rounder. Just because you are not a lottery pick doesn't mean you are not capable of making a roster for at least a few years. You make a nice chunk of cash and then you are pretty well set to move on with whatever else you plan to do with your life.

 

[BlueRunner11]

He talked about losing 8 players from the Bahamas on basically. He knew. Probably thought he would land a few more and we will still add a player or 2.

This is true. He knew 8 (including Alex) could potentially leave from the get go, but Id imagine he thought he would at least retain 2 or 3 of them when it was all said and done. I heard him say somewhere that he basically told a couple of them they werent ready but he said hopefully they'll prove him wrong just like Jodie Meeks did.

 

[Ripcord65]

The only 2 that have not been projected to go in the 1st round by at least one scouting expert have been the Harrisons. So I believe that Cal knew that all 7 were gone. The only one that was the least bit shocking was Booker, considering that he wasn't even ranked in the top 25 coming out of High School.

The only thing that surprises me about these highly rated recruits going elsewhere, is the fact that they waited until the end of the year to go to their home state schools. Why? If they weren't coming to UK, why wait?

I thought it was shocking that Booker left because of his age. He was only 17 years old when he graduated from high school.

 

[Hoskins91]

like it or not the problem with guys declaring at UK as opposed to anywhere else is that Cal by his own admission won't ever discourage it or give the this is why you should stay side. From his own mouth on the Mike Francesca show after we won the title he did a hour long interview where he said, he gathers feedback, tells the players and parents what it is, gives them contact info of the NBA people, and let's them choose for themselves what they should do without his coercion one way or the other. After he said that Fracensca said well John surely with all the guys you have that leave after every year you can't believe they're all ready to which he replied you're right. Francesca then said well what do you tell the NBA when they inquire about those guys? Cal's response, I lie like hell, tell them they're the best guy I ever coached and are going to be future all stars. So, there in lies the problem, when Cal knows Teague, Lamb, Goodwin, Young, Harrison, Harrison, Johnson, Booker, Lyles, etc... shouldn't go he would never say you know it may be valuable for you to come and learn x and y and be in a better position to contribute when you get to the NBA. He's just you want to go? Ok, let me help you get drafted as high as I possibly can, that's a noble thing but I wonder sometimes if telling some of these kids it's all sunshine and rainbows doesn't hurt them sometimes. Sure an elite of the elite guy like Noel, Bledsoe, Knight, Randle who could of benefited from coming back but didn't need to, to ensure a long and fruitful NBA career it won't but a guy who may be able to have a 10 year career as journeyman starter or solid back up like the list I mentioned above I think not shooting them straight that they aren't ready can hurt them in the long run. Just my 2 cents though.

He doesn't lie to the players. I am sure he gives his opinion and what the people he talked to have to say. He's not going to constantly pressure them to stay or undermine them while talking to other people. Maybe if he did that some would stay, but he would be a big hypocrite for doing so.

 

[MrHotDice]

No argument from me on any of that lol.
Of any of our guys if I'm a nba GM I'm drafting Kat first and then Lyles and Booker as a project that's it!
You noticed I left off WCS, twins and Dakari. I know WCS is projected as a top 10 pick but I'm not waisting a pick on a guy I could get for bottom dollars in free agency. WCS is not a big money player. I think what you saw against Wisconsin is WCS. I'm not spending money on that. Biggest game of your career and your crapping turds on the court.

Your 100% correct. WCS let himself and the team down in the most important game of the year but that was his MO. Highlight ESPN Top 10 play one game and disappear the next. he said it himself.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

I don't think anyone knows who WCS really is. He will improve and get better. He will do better in an up and down game. For all the hate WCS gets for the Wisconsin game it is not his fault UK had 3 straight shot clock violations or that 2-3 UK player watched and let the ball go out of bounds when he made the play of the game on a block with UK clinging to a 2 point lead. If they go get the damn ball UK is up 2 and the stupid shot clock violation missed call thing does not happen. WCS was never going to score a ton, he was too inconsistent.

I think he will surprise some people, but I do agree drafting him in the top 10 is a bit of a risk. I think Cal was expecting all 7 to leave, but maybe hoping Booker and DJ would come back (although I"m not sure how much more Cal could do with DJ as he is what he is at the college level in UK's system).

 

[cats#1again]

An NBA scout reported 7 were leaving the first week of March. Cal knew

Booker was top 25 coming out of highschool by any site that matters

 

[swflCAT]

Its just disheartening to see 7 guys leave...not very smart...there are 13 lottery picks did they really think every other pick is gonna be a UK player??? If you are underclassmen and not a lottery pick....why declare

Why not? Most wont look at themselves as an entity. There is a good chance that they will make more in the next hand full of years than most will in their entire lives(they see and can measure their family and friends/ I'm sure they understand a dollar)..... why not take a lifes worth of wages in a couple years...... where's the line.

 

[kyboy1998]

I think Cal planned to lose the guys he lost and Poythress too.

I think Cal is more blindsided by not winning the title and scrambling to regroup without the benefit of "just won the title" to hold some over.

Regardless we will be fine. You don't have to be stacked to win in college and most teams (even title teams) have holes. He's given us a punchers chance 5 out of 6 years so I'll roll with whatever we end up with and let the group mesh.

I'm really excited about the upcoming team myself.

 

[EvilMD]

I think at the end he was thinking Dakari and Booker would be back. Dakari because he needed to and Booker because he could improve his stock and play with his best friend another year. I wouldn't say he was shocked, though. He has built his system for kids to get their dream tickets.

 

[BreckCo.Wildcat]

Cal invested his time with a 39 win season in hopes of winning a championship. He is now scrambling around with recruiting; fairly obvious.

Cal is human and only has so much time to allocate. Where is your time best spent?

 

[Bkocats]

I don't think Cal was blindsided at all; he knew it was a strong possibility from the beginning. However, I also think he was hoping one or two (besides Alex) would return; but he wasn't going to stop them. I also believe that some of these recruits have blindsided him more than our players did. After all, how many waited until players announced draft intentions? And - and here is conspiracy theory for ya - I believe a lot of negative recruiting has been going on, mainly that Cal is on his way to the NBA. All these recruits have to do is look up the articles and draw conclusions for "proof"

But, even so, I also believe we are going to be fine. There will never be a repeat of 2012-2013. At worst we see an Elite 8.

 

[reignof cats]

NBA camp before the season started told Cal ALL he needed to know. Looks like all 7 will be drafted. Cal has BBN on edge most of the time in and out of season. GBB

 

[kyjeff1]

WCS not a top 10 pick??? GTFOOH, he's easily a top 10 pick, what's wrong with you guys, that guy has more potential than anyone on the draft board. He has size, he has length, he has quickness, unbelievable athletic ability and can actually shoot a 10 footer. He needs to work hard on his offensive game and guess where he can do that every day of the week? The league. Here in Detroit every sports radio host loves WCS and badly wants him on the Pistons' roster. Can't believe someone would say he's not a top 10 pick. Wow.
Also, Cal knew before January was over that 7 were leaving, you kidding? It's the culture he has built here, they feel like failures if the end up as juniors here, all they need to hear is that they might get picked up. Guys like the Harrison's and DJ have no business leaving, they, along with Orton, Teague and Lamb have made a mockery of the system. They are not NBA material and will probably lose millions by leaving now but maybe some kids down the road will see that those decisions were bad decisions when these kids are playing D league ball next to Razor Ramon their entire careers.
DJ bringing THAT game onto any court with NBA guys is going to be an embarrassment. Hope he's ready for that.

 

[sillygoose12]

I thought it was shocking that Booker left because of his age. He was only 17 years old when he graduated from high school.

How many of these kids actually improve their draft position by playing more than 1 year? WCS maybe improved his projected draft position from his fr. and so. years but what about the rest? Are the twins and Dakari in better positions as far as the draft than they were at this time last year? Would Lee be in a better position if he had entered this year or last year? Poythress was clearly in a better position after year 1 than he has been since so I can see why a kid like Booker would leave now instead of coming back and risk losing his first round status. Players can come back and raise their stock but they can also lower their stock by coming back. Cal sells UK to top recruits on the fact that UK is the best and fastest way to the NBA so when they see that dream in reach they're going to jump for it more often than not.

 

[kats23]

Nope. Talked about losing a bunch of guys and even tried to prepare the fans for it in Feb. I remember him saying something along the line of the past 2 years we've seen only a couple guys going pro, that won't happen this year.

 

[caneintally]

Cal always said we would lose 5-7 so no.

 

[Mojocat]

No way. It was obvious by January, when Booker started appearing as a lottery pick in mock drafts. I said then - and was lightly ridiculed on this board - that we could lose 10. Seven to the NBA seemed obvious; Poythress could 8 make depending on where his head was; and either or both of Lee and Willis could transfer without much of a surprise.

 

[hoggwildcat]

I think at the end he was thinking Dakari and Booker would be back. Dakari because he needed to and Booker because he could improve his stock and play with his best friend another year. I wouldn't say he was shocked, though. He has built his system for kids to get their dream tickets.

In the end Dakari was only question. In the beginning he threw out numbers like 8, for recruiting purposes. Why else do you think he held a scouting combine in their own gym. Cal knew he was going to lose a lot.

 

[Kerry Kat]

Cal can never complain. It's the same system that's getting them to sign, so he's stuck in a continuous recruiting D Loop.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I think the only one that might have surprised him was Booker. Booker needs to get stronger for the NBA. He is young and could have used another year.

I think he knew it was a good possibility, though.

The thing that surprised him, I think, is missing out on Newman.

 

[Waterview Catfan]

WCS not a top 10 pick??? GTFOOH, he's easily a top 10 pick, what's wrong with you guys, that guy has more potential than anyone on the draft board. He has size, he has length, he has quickness, unbelievable athletic ability and can actually shoot a 10 footer. He needs to work hard on his offensive game and guess where he can do that every day of the week? The league. Here in Detroit every sports radio host loves WCS and badly wants him on the Pistons' roster. Can't believe someone would say he's not a top 10 pick. Wow.
Also, Cal knew before January was over that 7 were leaving, you kidding? It's the culture he has built here, they feel like failures if the end up as juniors here, all they need to hear is that they might get picked up. Guys like the Harrison's and DJ have no business leaving, they, along with Orton, Teague and Lamb have made a mockery of the system. They are not NBA material and will probably lose millions by leaving now but maybe some kids down the road will see that those decisions were bad decisions when these kids are playing D league ball next to Razor Ramon their entire careers.
DJ bringing THAT game onto any court with NBA guys is going to be an embarrassment. Hope he's ready for that.

Willie most likely is a top ten-fifteen pick, but I wouldn't pick him that high if it were me, but I obviously don't know what the NBA scouts do, they make a living drafting kids and I don't. I think Willie doesn't take basketball seriously sometimes, and that's ok if you are playing for fun, but the NBA is a business, and that attitude will catch up with you sooner rather than later in the league. Hopefully he can make enough money to be set for life regardless, I'm rooting for him and all the rest too. As for kids in the future seeing the mistakes some are making today, good point. All things have a way of balancing out eventually, and this will too. Just a shame that some kids will have to pay a huge price for others to learn from, but it is what it is.

 

[brianpoe]

WCS not a top 10 pick??? GTFOOH, he's easily a top 10 pick, what's wrong with you guys, that guy has more potential than anyone on the draft board. He has size, he has length, he has quickness, unbelievable athletic ability and can actually shoot a 10 footer. He needs to work hard on his offensive game and guess where he can do that every day of the week? The league. Here in Detroit every sports radio host loves WCS and badly wants him on the Pistons' roster. Can't believe someone would say he's not a top 10 pick. Wow.
Also, Cal knew before January was over that 7 were leaving, you kidding? It's the culture he has built here, they feel like failures if the end up as juniors here, all they need to hear is that they might get picked up. Guys like the Harrison's and DJ have no business leaving, they, along with Orton, Teague and Lamb have made a mockery of the system. They are not NBA material and will probably lose millions by leaving now but maybe some kids down the road will see that those decisions were bad decisions when these kids are playing D league ball next to Razor Ramon their entire careers.
DJ bringing THAT game onto any court with NBA guys is going to be an embarrassment. Hope he's ready for that.

You contradict your own statement throughout this comment.

Stating that kids are not NBA material one year and then the next year they are worth millions? If they have it they have it. They will not extend their careers by several years because of playing one extra season in college, you get much better in the pros playing everyday.

If they are what you say they are they most definitely should take the money as early as possible.

Orton made the right choice. He knew his knee was bad, also another year would have exposed some weaknesses in his game. He definitely should have finished the damn semester.

WCS is a great athlete but I would not take him in the first round. His defense is great when he is into the game, Cal could not get consistent intensity from him during a college season, even our FF game, how will he do for a long NBA season? That said, he will get picked high, probably top 10 like you said, on measurables alone.

 

[ORCAT]

I don't think Cal was blindsided at all; he knew it was a strong possibility from the beginning. However, I also think he was hoping one or two (besides Alex) would return; but he wasn't going to stop them. I also believe that some of these recruits have blindsided him more than our players did. After all, how many waited until players announced draft intentions? And - and here is conspiracy theory for ya - I believe a lot of negative recruiting has been going on, mainly that Cal is on his way to the NBA. All these recruits have to do is look up the articles and draw conclusions for "proof"

But, even so, I also believe we are going to be fine. There will never be a repeat of 2012-2013. At worst we see an Elite 8.

I can buy into most of what you say here. Cal had mentioned 7-8 could "possibly" go all season long and that's what happened. I do agree with you that he may have been hoping for a couple of the guys to stick around for next year and I believe he was hoping for Booker, in particular. That's why I feel we heard the "man's league" comments from Cal when he said he spoke to every player after the last game. But, you're right, he isn't the type of coach who is going to stop them either so I can't say he was blindsided totally. As for the negative recruiting about Cal to NBA, I have no doubt that has been going on big time this year and likely in the past too. I just think it was accelerated by rival coaches this year.