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DBs, not sure why there is so much doom and gloom about them-----no one will argue that we are

jauk11

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nearly at the SEC level yet, but what we should be looking for is improvement-----and I can see quite a bit next year. With the new defense we list five DBs on the depth chart, and we return four of five on both the first and second string. We lose two, one a starter and one a backup-----both were 5.6s.

What do you favor, experience or talent? If our one starter lost is replaced by McWilson, his backup, we will start three seniors and two juniors, with Harmon, Randolph, and Faulkner returning backups with another years experience.

If you want to go by talent, Stamps could be the most talented and a senior, but we could start all four stars in Faulkner, McWilson, Randolph, Edwards, and West, (with several 5.7s) the first three with playing experience and the latter two with a year on campus. You could also say that our two senior 5.6s are being replaced with two 5.7s, a 5.6, and a 5.5, but the latter two with Stoops size that could contribute this year..

Joker's 11 class has one surviving DB, 5.8 Faulkner, and his 12 class one DB, 5.5 Quinn, (out of 8 db commits), and Quinn is listed as a starter.

NO, we won't be that good at DB, but there should be quite a bit of improvement, and that is what we have to be looking for for a while, not SEC contenders. But the future there is MUCH brighter.
 
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Just because someone is rated higher doesn't mean that they're more talented. Faulkner, for example, will never see the field other than special teams and barring some freak string of injuries.Stamps and McClain are our two best DBs. McClain started at safety and slid down to nickel and McWilson came in at safety. In the dime, same thing but Randolph came in as the middle safety/other CB who covered the slot. Also, our CBs aren't bad talent wise, it's size. Can't do much when you're being pushed around and taken advantage of constantly. Quinn is pretty good in coverage, just small. That's why I think Baity and Westry will be starting and/or playing significant minutes midway through the season.
 
A improved pass rush would go a long way toward helping the DB's out.
Regardless of talent or experience.

I'm sure we had a sack or two last season, I just don't remember many.


Any pass rush at all would have been a huge help against UL.

Now getting blocked in the running plays is another story.
 
Ansley has done well with getting young guys to play to their potential very quickly. I looks forward to watching West and Edwards. They should know the defense well and they have quite a bit of potential. Those two guys along with Randolph and McClain I think will make for a nice secondary for the next few years. Gonna miss McClain. One of the hardest hitters. Already a junior. So sad.
 
I was under the impression Faulkner was no longer on the team. If that is correct all of our highest ranked DB's (5.7 or better) except for Hytche and McWilson are underclassmen. There is a ton of talent being developed in the defensive backfield.
 
faulkner is still with the team and will play st's and a few snaps/game but he's gonna have to work his tale off to get just a few. as good as west and edwards are gonna be... marcus walker may be the best S we've had here in a while. i know some people who do scouting for a living are really high on walker. not sure he plays a lot this year but he's gonna make people not miss stamps when stamps goes to the nfl.

i think 1 or 2 of the freshmen cb's end up playing alot this year. i would of thought baity or westry would get snaps but i've heard a lot of people who know someone on our staff who think jackson is just as much in the mix. his low rating seems to be more because he was listed as an ATH more so than cb and he'll get a chance to earn early pt.

i dont like the idea of relying on freshmen cb's but if one of those 3 can take 1 of the spots i think the D overall could be improved. all 3 of those guys have great size and are good overall athletes. the deep fade routes that killed last year would be greatly helped if one of these guys comes in and "gets it" quick. i think it will be week 4 or 5 before you see a flip of starters at cb but the future looks bright at db overall for the next 5 years..,
 
I don't relish another year of watching SEC WRs sprinting past Quinn/Tiller as if they were standing still. If Randolph and Hytchye can't beat them out the hoped for improvement on D will be nothing but a dream. Relying on freshmen CBs in the SEC is a death sentence. Hopefully all those guys can RS but it appears at least one will be forced to play before their time.
 
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nearly at the SEC level yet, but what we should be looking for is improvement-----and I can see quite a bit next year. With the new defense we list five DBs on the depth chart, and we return four of five on both the first and second string. We lose two, one a starter and one a backup-----both were 5.6s.

What do you favor, experience or talent? If our one starter lost is replaced by McWilson, his backup, we will start three seniors and two juniors, with Harmon, Randolph, and Faulkner returning backups with another years experience.

If you want to go by talent, Stamps could be the most talented and a senior, but we could start all four stars in Faulkner, McWilson, Randolph, Edwards, and West, (with several 5.7s) the first three with playing experience and the latter two with a year on campus. You could also say that our two senior 5.6s are being replaced with two 5.7s, a 5.6, and a 5.5, but the latter two with Stoops size that could contribute this year..

Joker's 11 class has one surviving DB, 5.8 Faulkner, and his 12 class one DB, 5.5 Quinn, (out of 8 db commits), and Quinn is listed as a starter.

NO, we won't be that good at DB, but there should be quite a bit of improvement, and that is what we have to be looking for for a while, not SEC contenders. But the future there is MUCH brighter.


I guess you haven't watched the last two seasons?
 
I guess you haven't watched the last two seasons?
A lot of doom and gloom from a lot of loyal fans on this board. I don't know much historically about UK football and that may be a huge contributing factor. However from the outside looking in as a newbie, last season looked like a team that ran out of depth physically and emotionally as a brutal SEC schedule kicked into full swing. The program looks to be up and coming and had
multiple opportunities to put itself on the map last year as a contender (robbed in the UF game, competitive in the MSU game and one dropped int away
from beating a rival and possibly securing a bowl win). I believe the program is only going to get better talent and depth wise IF the development by the coaching
staff is there. The athletes are SEC caliber athletes coming into the program, I am anxious to see how they develop, the RS class this season should give us a strong indication.
 
Stoops is known for his defense and I expect it will be much improved in his year three. Can't wait to see it.

Good post Jauk.
 
I'm sure our D will be improved overall despite the two big losses on the D-line. That said, UK's offense will carry them to a bowl game if they make it, same as last year when they pulled upsets or came close to it ala UL and FL. Now the D will have to make plays (big plays at end of SC game, and sadly missed opp with dropped INT against UL) for UK to win 6+, but I still say offense will be what gets UK bowling.
 
A lot of doom and gloom from a lot of loyal fans on this board. I don't know much historically about UK football and that may be a huge contributing factor. However from the outside looking in as a newbie, last season looked like a team that ran out of depth physically and emotionally as a brutal SEC schedule kicked into full swing. The program looks to be up and coming and had
multiple opportunities to put itself on the map last year as a contender (robbed in the UF game, competitive in the MSU game and one dropped int away
from beating a rival and possibly securing a bowl win). I believe the program is only going to get better talent and depth wise IF the development by the coaching
staff is there. The athletes are SEC caliber athletes coming into the program, I am anxious to see how they develop, the RS class this season should give us a strong indication.

An astute observation by an outside observer whose mind is not cluttered up by some of the disappointments that us long time fans have endued. I agree that the Cats seem to be on the rise. All the Cats need is a few more recruits like your son appears to be and maybe they can put some of their trials into the past.
 
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the offense can also greatly help the D. more sustained drives leaves them on the sideline resting instead of on the field all day long... part of the reason we got wore down second half of the season. also, play calling will change if we can put pressure on opposing offenses. if we are scoring touchdowns instead of punting or kicking fieldgoals, then they have to pass a little more often and we can bring a little more heat. i think the way we lost that lsu game also took a lot out of our sails.
 
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Football is a team game and every area is affected if you have to compensate for weakness at a particular area. IMO the front sevens weakness against the run made it difficult on the pass defense because it had to be constantly alert to clean up when the front seven let runners loose into the secondary and in my opinion this hurt their pass coverage.
 
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You have to be able to stop the run with 6 when teams go 4 wide. We absolutely could not do that last season. Now you must bring another player into the run box.

Now you have 7 dual players and 4 coverage guys. There is not much a DC can do with that. As much praise as Stamps gets, he made several wrong reads vs UofL which get blamed on the CBS. And his game vs UT was dreadful. The UT OC clearly was targeting him and making him wrong. Our CBS are not man corners skill wise. They are playing to funnel to the safety who is playing inside. When the safety abandons the middle and chases a dig route, the post route with the CB trailing is going to be open. (See 2 TDs vs UGA.)

I'm not saying CBS are NFL players but they are getting much more blame than necessary.
 
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The safeties are not the issue. In fact IMO safety is a position of strength this year. It's the corners that folks are concerned with. Randolph, McClain & Tucker could push last year's starters Quinn & Tiller but the problem is they are all much more suited for the field corner position. Hytchye has been sort of an enigma. He hasn't seen the field much, but he had some nice offers including Arizona State, Penn State and Tennessee. Size may be an issue. We don't really have any great candidates for the boundary unless you look at the freshmen, which I think should be the last resort. The corner position takes a lot of experience IMO and it's just not good to be throwing freshmen into the fire there.

Quinn and Tiller have taken a lot heat from the fans as to if they are even SEC caliber or not. I think both have looked good at times but not so good at other times. Tiller had some decent offers including Nebraska, South Carolina and MSU. The good news is being seniors they won't get fooled that much, and IMO with a better pass rush they will look better to the eye this year as well. We'll see.
 
good stuff adolph. but on both those clips the cb's were actually right there with the wr and just didn't get a hand on the ball. part of that is size and strength.

it is sounding like hytchye doesn't have the hips to play man coverage and is more of just straight line fast. tucker i think is still too skinny and randolph has been pegged as an inside guy instead of corner from what i've read. i think the 3 freshmen and even walker are gonna get chances to take one of the cb positions. i think 2 will play at least some just to get experience for next year even if they dont take over the spot as the year goes on.
 
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ood stuff adolph. but on both those clips the cb's were actually right there with the wr and just didn't get a hand on the ball. part of that is size and strength.

Exactly right . That is why they won't be NFL CBs but very serviceable for college. Look where the safety was at the time the QB finished his drop. This passing combo is one used to take advantage of a safety vacating his area. He is moving forward to the dig route. Had he remained flat or even back pedaled in the middle of the field, the QB is not going to throw the post. He will hitch up and hit the dig (deep cross). At that point the safety can break on the route. He has to hope the LBs got some depth to cause some air to be put under the ball to give him more time to break up the pass.
 
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Exactly right . That is why they won't be NFL CBs but very serviceable for college. Look where the safety was at the time the QB finished his drop. This passing combo is one used to take advantage of a safety vacating his area. He is moving forward to the dig route. Had he remained flat or even back pedaled in the middle of the field, the QB is not going to throw the post. He will hitch up and hit the dig (deep cross). At that point the safety can break on the route. He has to hope the LBs got some depth to cause some air to be put under the ball to give him more time to break up the pass.

Adolph, are you sure the coverage is not man with one over top in the first play, it looks to me the safety locks on to the TE and not have any zone responsibilities...

Dave
 
You have to be able to stop the run with 6 when teams go 4 wide. We absolutely could not do that last season. Now you must bring another player into the run box.

Now you have 7 dual players and 4 coverage guys. There is not much a DC can do with that. As much praise as Stamps gets, he made several wrong reads vs UofL which get blamed on the CBS. And his game vs UT was dreadful. The UT OC clearly was targeting him and making him wrong. Our CBS are not man corners skill wise. They are playing to funnel to the safety who is playing inside. When the safety abandons the middle and chases a dig route, the post route with the CB trailing is going to be open. (See 2 TDs vs UGA.)

I'm not saying CBS are NFL players but they are getting much more blame than necessary.


That's all well and good but it doesn't explain one inconvenient truth....Quinn/Tiller lack the speed to cover SEC WRs. We'll always know their uniform number, it'll be the last thing we'll see as SEC WRs are running into the end zone.
 
Yes. I believe it was man 1 being played from a 2 high shell. The FS whom you cannot see is going to roll to the middle of the field. He is to be as deep as the deepest. It is apparent he began to roll then tried to jump the inside post. Meanwhile he left the corner to the strong side all alone who was playing a trail technique.
The SS who you see had the tight end , or #2 to his side
 
Someone has GOT to take over Tiller's spot. I am thankful for all of the time and effort he has put in as a Cat but he can't defend SEC WR's. The future of our secondary is very bright. I'm just not sure we will see that happen this year.
 
A improved pass rush would go a long way toward helping the DB's out.
Regardless of talent or experience.

I'm sure we had a sack or two last season, I just don't remember many.


Any pass rush at all would have been a huge help against UL.

Now getting blocked in the running plays is another story.

Cats were top 50 in sacks last year with 27...and that's without the 13th/14th game that many teams in front of them enjoyed. Had 3 sacks vs UL, one forcing a fumble returned for a TD.
 
Cats were top 50 in sacks last year with 27...and that's without the 13th/14th game that many teams in front of them enjoyed. Had 3 sacks vs UL, one forcing a fumble returned for a TD.

That's an interesting and relevant stat, but IMO hurries and knock downs are more revealing as far as the level of pressure the line is getting (and I don't know where they might be published). Sacks frequently come on the blitz which doesn't necessarily reflect on the d-line, and also leaves your secondary more vulnerable.
 
You have to be able to stop the run with 6 when teams go 4 wide. We absolutely could not do that last season. Now you must bring another player into the run box.

Now you have 7 dual players and 4 coverage guys. There is not much a DC can do with that. As much praise as Stamps gets, he made several wrong reads vs UofL which get blamed on the CBS. And his game vs UT was dreadful. The UT OC clearly was targeting him and making him wrong. Our CBS are not man corners skill wise. They are playing to funnel to the safety who is playing inside. When the safety abandons the middle and chases a dig route, the post route with the CB trailing is going to be open. (See 2 TDs vs UGA.)

I'm not saying CBS are NFL players but they are getting much more blame than necessary.

Very true that our D-Line exposed our Secondary because the secondary always had to worry about run support. The middle of our D-Line was dreadful last half of season. Our Defensive woes are all about talent level and depth......and that is going to take time to fix.

I really hope Elam and our DTs can at least clog up the middle this year or we will not go bowling again. With the loss of Z and Dupree we have got to find a way to clog the middle better than last season.

I have complete faith in Stoops and Coach Eliot. They are trying to recruit us out of this mess Joker put us in....

Our offense HAS GOT TO step it up this season to help the D because we STILL do not have enough SEC defensive talent.

Towles and the O-Line better step it up because we have got to get to 6 wins and a bowl to keep any kind of recruiting momentum. Towles is a junior now. No more excuses. He needs to step it up and be a top tier SEC QB or step aside for Barker. This season is mainly riding on him and the offense.
 
I'm a heck of a lot more worried about the d-line and linebackers than I am the secondary.

Skill players (besides QB) aren't what generally separate Kentucky from Georgia or LSU. It's the big boys that separate us.

Even Mac teams have decent skill players. There are a lot of decent skill players out there. But what there aren't a lot of are 6'5", 300-pound guys that are athletic.

We need to worry about the offensive line and defensive line. Not the secondary.
 
Cats were top 50 in sacks last year with 27...and that's without the 13th/14th game that many teams in front of them enjoyed. Had 3 sacks vs UL, one forcing a fumble returned for a TD.

Cats were top 50 in sacks last year with 27...and that's without the 13th/14th game that many teams in front of them enjoyed. Had 3 sacks vs UL, one forcing a fumble returned for a TD.

Yet we had a 6th string QB beat us.
 
Yet we had a 6th string QB beat us.

Well he started over the 2nd stringer when they were both available for the bowl game. The 2nd stringer started over the first in the Clemson game when both were available. So you tell me what the difference is...

And QB didn't beat us, Devante Parker did. The UL game was one where we put a ton of pressure on the QB. Sorry you were wrong and used a bad example.
 
I totally agree with Adolf. It all starts with our front six not being able to consistently stop the run. We've all heard it said by every SEC coach not named Hal Mumme, in the SEC it's all about the run game.

If you doubt this then ask yourself, who wins, a defense that has Alabama's front six and Ky's secondary or a team with Kentucky's front six and Ala's secondary. Personally I think the first combination wins 9 out of 10.
 
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Well he started over the 2nd stringer when they were both available for the bowl game. The 2nd stringer started over the first in the Clemson game when both were available. So you tell me what the difference is...

And QB didn't beat us, Devante Parker did. The UL game was one where we put a ton of pressure on the QB. Sorry you were wrong and used a bad example.


I'll tell you the difference.......we lost
and UL lost their bowl game.

However to your point...I probley chose the wrong game to use as a example.
And to mine, when a QB has all day to pass he going to pick any team apart. DB's can only cover so long, hence my referance about the lack of a effective pass rush.
 
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The old saying is still very accurate, The game is won and lost in the trenches.
 
Well Stoops and Co have said their concerns for our defense is the secondary...I'll trust that.
 
Catsfan that's a pretty good way to look at it. I'm of the school that the run has to be stopped so the pass can be defended. Our rush defense last year was ranked 89th while our passing yardage given up was ranked 43rd.
 
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Not nearly as much criticism of the DBs on this thread as I expected, but the important thing to me is that with our losses, more experience, and new and more talented players coming in while we won't be really good we should be really improved at DB as well as the most of the other positions.
 
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