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Can Bill Self show his face in Chicago

Any top 10 player that would go to KU is crazy..Not only Cliff, but look what he did to Selby
 
Wiggins rookie of the year, guess that eliminates the fact two top five rated players who went one and done at KU didn't get drafted....
 
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Hard to mess up Wiggins. If he just sat him on the bench all year at KU he would still be getting rookie of the year in the league.
 
I honestly don't think Self can go back in Chicago to recruit 5 star talent. He is not a great developer of elite prospects and really hasn't ever been. I think the most glaring part of this is how he washed his hands of Cliff after the NCAA incident. If I'm a parent of a Chicago recruit or any recruit for that matter, I look at that more so than the draft stock.
 
Wiggins didn't really live up to the hype at KU, but really anywhere he went, it would have been hard to live up to the enormous hype that had been bestowed on him.

Still don't think Self's high/low offense was the best fit for Wiggins though.

Some of Alexander's problems were his own, and Self didn't do much for him...again.
 
Does that mean Cal can't recruit in Texas anymore, since Aaron didn't get drafted? Or is it okay, since Julius Randle went in the lottery, even though he slipped a few spots from his original projection. Same with Andrew, slipped out of the first round. C'mon guys.

I do think it's laughable that many people tab Self as a big man coach, considering Cal's track record (AD, Boogie, Nerlens, KAT, WCS) since being at UK. But other than that, a lot of this is on the recruit. Cliff without a doubt rubbed people the wrong way. The dude was a prick from the get. Not Self's fault.
 
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No one mentioned Oubre yet, so thought I would. On the draft last night, Oubre was asked what his draft team was getting: Oubre said they were getting a jewel. Minutes later, the pick was moved to Washington.

Not being fooled by Oubre; I don't see him doing any more than the Rush brothers.

Kansas not feeling good about this draft; the ratings probably weren't the best in Lawrence last night.
 
Any top 10 player that would go to KU is crazy..Not only Cliff, but look what he did to Selby
Wiggins, the Morris twins, McLemore and Aldrich will be pretty good-really good in the league for a while...Chalmers = meh...who knows w/ Embiid and Oubre...Arthur & Henry destined to be bench players. Not a great track record for an ELITE school.
 
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This will hurt Kansas in the coming years with recruits. They will remember only one thing that Cliff Alexander did not get drafted.
 
Bill Self also turned the #12 overall ranked Sherron Collins into an undrafted player who could only get a cup of coffee in the NBA.

That's 2 high profile prospects out of Chicago that Self failed to get drafted.
 
Bill Self also turned the #12 overall ranked Sherron Collins into an undrafted player who could only get a cup of coffee in the NBA.

That's 2 high profile prospects out of Chicago that Self failed to get drafted.

Come on now, Collins was never considered an elite NBA prospect. And that had nothing to do with what school he went to. Some guys are just very good college basketball players and not meant to play in the NBA.
 
Come on now, Collins was never considered an elite NBA prospect. And that had nothing to do with what school he went to. Some guys are just very good college basketball players and not meant to play in the NBA.
He was the #12 ranked prospect coming out of high school. So he may not have been considered an "elite NBA prospect" but he was definitely an NBA prospect.
 
With the talent pool there, I can only see our presence growing in Chicago. Tuff, hard nosed, high energy recruits aplenty.
I just looked at the 2016 and 2017 classes and there isn't a whole lot of talent in Chicago right now. It's usually cyclical so I'm sure someone will pop up soon. It's just bizarre after Rose, Davis, Parker, and Okafor in recent years (all top-3 picks) that there is nobody in the top-25 in the next 2 classes.
 
He was the #12 ranked prospect coming out of high school. So he may not have been considered an "elite NBA prospect" but he was definitely an NBA prospect.

He was a fat 5'9 point guard. Not a huge market for that despite his high school ranking.
 
I just looked at the 2016 and 2017 classes and there isn't a whole lot of talent in Chicago right now. It's usually cyclical so I'm sure someone will pop up soon. It's just bizarre after Rose, Davis, Parker, and Okafor in recent years (all top-3 picks) that there is nobody in the top-25 in the next 2 classes.
Thats good news for Self, cause he isnt getting any of them! Haha
 
He was a fat 5'9 point guard. Not a huge market for that despite his high school ranking.
He was 5'11 and 190#. And I'm sure that was Bill Self's recruiting pitch to the Collins family. Come to Kansas as a 5* recruit and then I'll do everything to prepare myself to blame your lack of an NBA career on your physical limitations.

I get that there are some things outside the control of a coach. But Self has had 2 high level recruits from Chicago go undrafted. One time can be a fluke, twice seems to be a pattern.
 
Just my opinion..... But Cliff and his crew are dirt balls.
After the slap in the face he gave Izzo and MSU, saying " I have no relationship with MSU" after recruiting him forever and having a picture on his Twitter account of him and Izzo........... Good riddance.
Hope he can speak Turk good..... Lol
 
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I know you guys want to blame Self, that's just the nature of fandom. But if Cliff, Selby and Sherron are your examples one year removed from the #1 and #3 picks being Kansas guys well your argument is pretty flawed. I know, here comes the Excuse Train but...

Sherron Collins is 5'11 in shoes and like the SECOND he graduated he turned into a bowling ball. KU made radio commercials in Lawrence while he was there that no fast food restaurant was allowed to serve him. That's real. He can still ball, he just played in the scrimmage but you should see how fat he is.

Cliff and Selby played partial years and had injuries. Cliff threw his career away. He showed up at KU with like, no fundamentals. He can dunk and block everything and in highschool he never had to do anything else. He needed a year or two to develop simple skills that most guys know. He had terrible footwork and couldn't handle double teams or defensive assignments. He was going to work on that but oops his family screwed that up for him. It's sad.

When you go to a college and get six months of training before dribbling your career down your leg it isn't Self that has ruined it. Those guys had serious flaws in their game and needed more than six months to fix them, but the ranking system tells them they are NBA-bound so they leave and you see what that gets them.

Blaming Self for these guys is silly.
 
I know you guys want to blame Self, that's just the nature of fandom. But if Cliff, Selby and Sherron are your examples one year removed from the #1 and #3 picks being Kansas guys well your argument is pretty flawed. I know, here comes the Excuse Train but...

Sherron Collins is 5'11 in shoes and like the SECOND he graduated he turned into a bowling ball. KU made radio commercials in Lawrence while he was there that no fast food restaurant was allowed to serve him. That's real. He can still ball, he just played in the scrimmage but you should see how fat he is.

Cliff and Selby played partial years and had injuries. Cliff threw his career away. He showed up at KU with like, no fundamentals. He can dunk and block everything and in highschool he never had to do anything else. He needed a year or two to develop simple skills that most guys know. He had terrible footwork and couldn't handle double teams or defensive assignments. He was going to work on that but oops his family screwed that up for him. It's sad.

When you go to a college and get six months of training before dribbling your career down your leg it isn't Self that has ruined it. Those guys had serious flaws in their game and needed more than six months to fix them, but the ranking system tells them they are NBA-bound so they leave and you see what that gets them.

Blaming Self for these guys is silly.
Josh Harrellson, DeAndre Liggins and Darius Miller weren't even in the same stratosphere of being considered for the NBA draft. Cal worked and DEVELOPED these young men and they got drafted. So, what you're admitting is Self can't take under developed players and work with them developing them into the best versions of themselves. Thanks for making our point for us.
 
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Self has worked and developed a ton of guys. My point was you can't expect Cliff and Selby to get worked and developed into NBA starters in six months, especially when those guys don't buy in.

I'm going to ignore the fact that you're making a "player x did this so player y should do this" analogy that is inherently flawed and say that instead you're referring to guys who played multiple years at Kentucky which gave them time to be developed whereas Selby and Cliff were at KU a time period measured in months. Surely you can see how that's apples to oranges.
 
I know you guys want to blame Self, that's just the nature of fandom. But if Cliff, Selby and Sherron are your examples one year removed from the #1 and #3 picks being Kansas guys well your argument is pretty flawed. I know, here comes the Excuse Train but...

Sherron Collins is 5'11 in shoes and like the SECOND he graduated he turned into a bowling ball. KU made radio commercials in Lawrence while he was there that no fast food restaurant was allowed to serve him. That's real. He can still ball, he just played in the scrimmage but you should see how fat he is.

Cliff and Selby played partial years and had injuries. Cliff threw his career away. He showed up at KU with like, no fundamentals. He can dunk and block everything and in highschool he never had to do anything else. He needed a year or two to develop simple skills that most guys know. He had terrible footwork and couldn't handle double teams or defensive assignments. He was going to work on that but oops his family screwed that up for him. It's sad.

When you go to a college and get six months of training before dribbling your career down your leg it isn't Self that has ruined it. Those guys had serious flaws in their game and needed more than six months to fix them, but the ranking system tells them they are NBA-bound so they leave and you see what that gets them.

Blaming Self for these guys is silly.
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just realized cliff alexander didn’t get drafted. self is the anti-cal for these one-and-done guys, isn’t he?
 
Self has worked and developed a ton of guys. My point was you can't expect Cliff and Selby to get worked and developed into NBA starters in six months, especially when those guys don't buy in.

I'm going to ignore the fact that you're making a "player x did this so player y should do this" analogy that is inherently flawed and say that instead you're referring to guys who played multiple years at Kentucky which gave them time to be developed whereas Selby and Cliff were at KU a time period measured in months. Surely you can see how that's apples to oranges.
Tell us then, what is Bill Self's strongest argument for developing NBA talent? He's got Wiggins who I think will be a superstar. Then who is next? Or is everybody else just a poor worker with physical limitations, low fundamentals, and no work ethic?
 
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TRob has not set the NBA on fire it is true but he did get drafted #5 and isn't that what the question was about? Not how they perform in the NBA but where they get drafted? There are guys playing well. Markieff Morris is playing at a high level. We haven't seen Embiid yet but we will. Obviously guys like ADavis are playing much better, but nobody compares to UK for NBA talent.
 
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If I considered my self a one-and-done kid, and I was trying to choose between UK and Kansas, this would be a helpful little list to refer to.

Calipari:
2008 - Derrick Rose #1
2009 - Tyreke Evans #4
2010 - John Wall #1, Cousins #5, Bledsoe #18, and Orton #29
2011 - Kanter #3 and Knight #8
2012 - Davis #1, MKG #2, and Teague #29
2013 - Noel #6, Goodwin #29
2014 - Randle #7, James Young #17
2015 - Towns #1, Lyles #12, and Booker #13

Self:
2010 - Xavier Henry #12
2011 - Josh Selby #49
2013 - Ben McLemore* (redshirt freshman) #7
2014 - Wiggins #1, Embiid #3
2015 - Oubre #15 , Alexander UNDRAFTED

To break that down.
Cal: 13 lottery picks, 8 in the top-5. None 2nd round or UNDRAFTED
Self: 4 lottery picks, 2 in the top-5. 1 second round and 1 UNDRAFTED
 
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Kilmohawk...

Just give up. While Wiggins/Embiid did go 1 and 3...that's as much of statement as saying Anthony Davis going first...

With resources, talent level, and coaching that should be at Kansas, there's way too many failure by Self and his staff. That's the point.
 
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