Cal "It never entered my mind that we were going to lose"

[Joerupp]

Before anyone misinterprets this and reminds me of Cals record against Pitino.. Cal can out recruit Pitino so that throws Cal over the hump in an overall comparison of coaches... but everyone on here thats interested in this discussion can take their heart out of their thinking and use their head knows what Pitino can do with less than top notch talent...doesnt mean you have to like him.

Hey JRM not picking on you or calling you out. In the early years Rick had the more talented teams and Cal was able to pull off a win or 2. We won't be able to get them to swap teams and replay the games so it will just come down to everyones opinion. One thing that you always hear is the old, "Games decided by 5 points or less.". If we use that here are some interesting numbers:
Bill Self, Kansas — 80-60 .571

John Calipari, Kentucky — 81-61 .570

Roy Williams, North Carolina — 91-73 .555

Mike Krzyzewski, Duke — 139-112 .554

Tom Izzo, Michigan State — 76-63 .547

Rick Pitino, Louisville — 94-93 .503

Billy Donovan, Florida — 67-76 .469

The big surprise was Billy D.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Is this a joke? If so it's a very bad one.

Not a joke at all. This is a message board where people have different views. All you seem to want to do is call some posters "trolls". What proof do you have of that? It is ok to critique Cal and his in game decisions without being a troll or a Cal hater. Cal is not perfect and he is not God, he makes mistakes, it is perfectly within reason to talk about those.

 

[DickintheHam]

With 17 more likes received than you!

LOL!! Whee!! Big Whoop!!

 

[3rex]

And Sports Illustrated picked it as the best college game of the year, second year in a row SI has picked a UK game number one. Speaking of that game, there hasn't been a lot of talk about it on here.

Did Brey get out-coached that game? If we're going to harp on Cal for 3 bad possessions, what about Brey going the last 12 minutes without an answer for Townes? The announcer in the UK/Wisconsin game didn't question Cal once, but for most of the last half Elmore and Webber repeatedly wondered why Brey wasn't making an adjustment.

And if Cal us going to get criticized for slowing the ball down against a Wisconsin, are any of the critics going to step forward and praise him for the same strategy against ND, which produced an incredibly efficient offense down the stretch, allowing us to catch up and retake the lead? Or is the strategy fine unless it results in a loss - making it not a valid criticism and merely a bitch....

Wel, there is a difference between winning & losing. There's that.

Remember, just copy & paste "I worship Cal" on all these threads & you will save much time.

 

[jrm693]

Hey JRM not picking on you or calling you out. In the early years Rick had the more talented teams and Cal was able to pull off a win or 2. We won't be able to get them to swap teams and replay the games so it will just come down to everyones opinion. One thing that you always hear is the old, "Games decided by 5 points or less.". If we use that here are some interesting numbers:
Bill Self, Kansas — 80-60 .571

John Calipari, Kentucky — 81-61 .570

Roy Williams, North Carolina — 91-73 .555

Mike Krzyzewski, Duke — 139-112 .554

Tom Izzo, Michigan State — 76-63 .547

Rick Pitino, Louisville — 94-93 .503

Billy Donovan, Florida — 67-76 .469

The big surprise was Billy D.

Thank you for your respectful post I am as big a Cal fan as there is out there maybe just a little frustrated thought we had this one in the bag, Thanks

 

[Joerupp]

Thank you for your respectful post I am as big a Cal fan as there is out there maybe just a little frustrated thought we had this one in the bag, Thanks

I'm right there with you brother, I was looking forward to beating Duke. It just didn't work out that way so we have to lace them up and start over. But, it does still hurt.

 

[new era cat]

I've reaized that my life doesn't change at all whether we win or lose a title. Basically it's one euphoric feeling for a brief time and you buy a bunch of merchandise and talk smack. Literally nothing else changes for us.

Well consider the alternative we are faced with right now. We are all going to be disappointed for much longer. Until we get #9, this will haunt the fan base
We don't get to talk smack. Dukies have closed the gap with an inferior team.
There is also zero merchandise to purchase, and there would have been a plethora of 40-0 items.

On the bright side, the season will make for some good trivia questions 20 years from now.

 

[buster3.0]

Talking about the Wisconsin game. Said when were up 4 with about 5 mins to go, he thought it was over. Do you like that in a coach? The supreme confidence. Or do you want your coach to have some idea that his team could lose and have that thought help guide his strategy? Not really sure what I think just yet, but I was curious about how some of you think. I already know what certain posters will say.

The game was more of a scoring duel than UK was used to. UK had trouble stopping them, at least compared to their other opponent. When UK couldn't capitalize on the offensive end to go up 6 or 7, I had a feeling. I knew Wiscy was due a big shot.

After the Notre Dame the aura of UK's invincible defense was shot. I had this bad feeling Wiscy was going to give them fits, and I was right as UK played from behind all game.

 

[The_Answer1313]

The game was more of a scoring duel than UK was used to. UK had trouble stopping them, at least compared to their other opponent. When UK couldn't capitalize on the offensive end to go up 6 or 7, I had a feeling. I knew Wiscy was due a big shot.

After the Notre Dame the aura of UK's invincible defense was shot. I had this bad feeling Wiscy was going to give them fits, and I was right as UK played from behind all game.

Bingo.

We didn't lose this game because Cal played stall ball. We lost this game because like ND, we could not stop Wisconsin's offense at all.

 

[The_Answer1313]

We gave up 1.16 to ND and 1.23 to Wisconsin per possession.

Granted those two teams have amazing offenses but for a team that was considered to have a historic defense, that was the most disappointing part of all of this to me.

 

[Aike]

Hey JRM not picking on you or calling you out. In the early years Rick had the more talented teams and Cal was able to pull off a win or 2. We won't be able to get them to swap teams and replay the games so it will just come down to everyones opinion. One thing that you always hear is the old, "Games decided by 5 points or less.". If we use that here are some interesting numbers:
Bill Self, Kansas — 80-60 .571

John Calipari, Kentucky — 81-61 .570

Roy Williams, North Carolina — 91-73 .555

Mike Krzyzewski, Duke — 139-112 .554

Tom Izzo, Michigan State — 76-63 .547

Rick Pitino, Louisville — 94-93 .503

Billy Donovan, Florida — 67-76 .469

The big surprise was Billy D.

You know what those numbers tell me? They tell the story of coaches who instills belief in their players. Those coaches never think they will lose, and neither do their players. So when the going gets tough, more often than not, they come out on top.

You play to win the game. Some of you clearly don't get the mindset it takes to be a champion.

 

[Mojocat]

I am not wanting to argue but I guess I wonder why in three years he never developed a hook shot for WCS...

Fair enough. But bigger picture, Willie wasn't a highly rated recruit, wasn't a McDonald's all american, rated in the 40s as I recall. Right there in Self's backyard, yet he showed no interest. Nonetheless, here we are, less than 3 years later, and Willie is a consensus first team all American and high lottery pick. Does Cal get any credit for that? Looking at that whole picture and finding fault with the lack of a hook strikes me as somewhat like looking at Cindy Crawford (Kate Upton, take your generational pick) and focusing on that mole......

 

[Mojocat]

One thing that you always hear is the old, "Games decided by 5 points or less.". If we use that here are some interesting numbers:
Bill Self, Kansas — 80-60 .571

John Calipari, Kentucky — 81-61 .570

Roy Williams, North Carolina — 91-73 .555

Mike Krzyzewski, Duke — 139-112 .554

Tom Izzo, Michigan State — 76-63 .547

Rick Pitino, Louisville — 94-93 .503

Billy Donovan, Florida — 67-76 .469

The big surprise was Billy D.

The Pitino does more with less crowd is gonna have a hard time explaining that one. Isn't the late game situation supposed to go right to the heart of the X and O capabilities thing? See: several dozen posts since last 5 minutes of UK/UW game.....

 

[3rex]

Of course some of Cal's 5 point wins were possibly 10-12 point leads toward the end before stall ball made them closer than they should've been.

 

[king of cali]

Bingo.

We didn't lose this game because Cal played stall ball. We lost this game because like ND, we could not stop Wisconsin's offense at all.

Wisconsin was a really good team. It was pretty much a given that they were gonna score well, certainly much better than the scrub teams on the schedule. UK was able to get into the lead thanks to playing great defense and holding Wisconsin scoreless for 8 minutes on the game clock. The game was in their hands and the offense let them down again and again.

 

[EvilMD]

Of course some of Cal's 5 point wins were possibly 10-12 point leads toward the end before stall ball made them closer than they should've been.

And eight of them were tight tournament games. Princeton, Ohio State, UConn, Wichita State, Louisville, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame. None of them games like you describe, and we were 7-1 in those games. That doesn't include WV and UNC in 2011, both tight games until the final minute.

 

[3rex]

And eight of them were tight tournament games. Princeton, Ohio State, UConn, Wichita State, Louisville, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame. None of them games like you describe, and we were 7-1 in those games. That doesn't include WV and UNC in 2011, both tight games until the final minute.

I never said all, I just said some...not sure you're giving me 10 of the 142 changes that possibility.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Listen, I understand that going to four final fours has been great, Cal has certainly done many great things here and anyone who denies that would be crazy. However, when looking at the talent that has been here during his tenure, only having one title is a little disappointing to me. Would I be calling for Rupps head? No, that would be crazy! Am I calling for Cal's head? Nope! I am thirty so I never watched a live game coached by Rupp, so it is hard for me to compare him and Cal. Cal is perfect for this job, I only wished that he would change a few of his approaches; if that makes me a bad fan or whatever then so be it. I am sorry that I am not giddy that seven players left this year, some of you guys seemed tickled to death that those guys are gone, like you are going to be profiting from their NBA success or something. For me, I love Kentucky basketball and the entity of Kentucky basketball is my main concern. Do not get me wrong, I wish all of these guys luck and I will always root them on in league, but I am just not jumping for joy that they are gone like many posters on this board.

1975 IU didn't win it all. Neither did 1991 UNLV, or 1983 Houston, or 1984 Georgetown. Having the best team, or perceived best team, is nowhere near a guarantee you will win the title.

 

[brianpoe]

1975 IU didn't win it all. Neither did 1991 UNLV, or 1983 Houston, or 1984 Georgetown. Having the best team, or perceived best team, is nowhere near a guarantee you will win the title.

Great post, and I am afraid this team would not have beat any of these.

 

[Mojocat]

I think since the tournament went to 64 teams in '85, 10 of the 31 pre-tournament favorites to win the title have done so. So, right, no guarantees - but that won't stop the carping of a select few!

 

[Mojocat]

We gave up 1.16 to ND and 1.23 to Wisconsin per possession.

Granted those two teams have amazing offenses but for a team that was considered to have a historic defense, that was the most disappointing part of all of this to me.

Yes it was. Still think that results from the specific kind of offenses employed by those 2 teams, which effectively negated some of the strengths that had served us so well. Other top offenses like Gonzaga, Arizona and to a lesser extent Duke, which employed a more conventional inside out attack - we would have fared much better against them. Our overall length and athleticism, rim protection, all those things that showed so well over the course of the year, would've impacted those teams in ways that really didn't hamper ND and UW......

 

[BLUEballs09]

LOL!! Whee!! Big Whoop!!

What grade you in bro, 6th? I haven't heard "big whoop" since 2k hit.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Yes it was. Still think that results from the specific kind of offenses employed by those 2 teams, which effectively negated some of the strengths that had served us so well. Other top offenses like Gonzaga, Arizona and to a lesser extent Duke, which employed a more conventional inside out attack - we would have fared much better against them. Our overall length and athleticism, rim protection, all those things that showed so well over the course of the year, would've impacted those teams in ways that really didn't hamper ND and UW......

Yep it was a bad match up actually on both sides of the ball.

Wisconsin although their overall defense isn't the greatest in the world, two things they do well is rebound on defense (4th in the NCAA) and they do not put teams on the line (1st).

Those are two things we did very well on offense.

Their strength beat out our strength.

Then as you said....ND and Wisconsin were just bad matchups for a defense.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I don't think Wisconsin was really a bad matchup for us. I think the tipping point was the revenge factor. It was HUGE for them, and it really helped them stay focused and they gave their maximum effort. In a game devoid of history between the two teams, I think we beat them 7 times out of 10.

 

[dave5164]

I think we all thought after being down 8 or 9 to Wisc. and then to go on the run when we go up 4 plus we had the ball. If we drain another 2 or a Big 3 and go up 6 or 7 then I believe that would have been the nail in the coffin. We did have Wisc playing tired in last 8 or 9 minutes when we went on the big run. I thought just like the ND game we continue to go to Towns and he either finishes or will be double or triple teamed and he would go back out to Harrison for a 3! After being up 4 and with the Ball that trip down could have been Huge if we score a 2 or 3! After Harrison was still near halfcourt with 6 or 7 seconds on shot clock I knew then we had waited way too long to get in our Offense. After that 1st 30sec I was then yelling at TV screen to call Timeout or for Cal to get Ullis and Booker in there ASAP! Nothing bad toward Harrison Twins I would have loved to seen the last 4 min. with Ullis running the show!

 

[Chuckinden]

I said early in the season that our offense had not continuity or creativity and that Cal should hire and offensive "guru". Everyone said we would get better and be there in March. We never got better and our defense got worse.

Just no offensive strategy there except pound it in the middle. I am still upset over this loss and this is all I'm going to say about it.

 

[Mojocat]

I don't think Wisconsin was really a bad matchup for us. I think the tipping point was the revenge factor. It was HUGE for them, and it really helped them stay focused and they gave their maximum effort. In a game devoid of history between the two teams, I think we beat them 7 times out of 10.

No and yes, IMO. They were a horrible matchup for us, the one team I really didn't want to play. But you're right, the revenge factor - and that they wouldn't simply be happy to reach the final four (like say Arizona) - that was a huge factor, too. Everyone said Arizona and Wisconsin was a coin flip - but as far as best outcome for UK, it was very easy to root for Miller that game.....

 

[The_Answer1313]

I think that Wisconsin game was 60/40

We play Arizona I still think it's 60/40. Duke was well.

We were a notch above all those teams.......but just one notch.

Honestly, no matter how deep our team was, this is how it's going to be. Once you hit the Elite 8, there's going to be close games that are basically toss ups.

It's not going to be like 2012.

I know everyone is disappointed but getting to 4 final fours in the last 5 years is an amazing run.

 

[The_Answer1313]

When it's the start of the game and its 0-0 maybe we had a 6 in 10 shot.

When it's tied with 3 mins to go, the talented team still wins more often but it's basically a toss up.

 

[ThroughBlue]

I've reaized that my life doesn't change at all whether we win or lose a title. Basically it's one euphoric feeling for a brief time and you buy a bunch of merchandise and talk smack. Literally nothing else changes for us.

I wish I could come down to your level

 

[Jkwo]

Listen, I understand that going to four final fours has been great, Cal has certainly done many great things here and anyone who denies that would be crazy. However, when looking at the talent that has been here during his tenure, only having one title is a little disappointing to me. Would I be calling for Rupps head? No, that would be crazy! Am I calling for Cal's head? Nope! I am thirty so I never watched a live game coached by Rupp, so it is hard for me to compare him and Cal. Cal is perfect for this job, I only wished that he would change a few of his approaches; if that makes me a bad fan or whatever then so be it. I am sorry that I am not giddy that seven players left this year, some of you guys seemed tickled to death that those guys are gone, like you are going to be profiting from their NBA success or something. For me, I love Kentucky basketball and the entity of Kentucky basketball is my main concern. Do not get me wrong, I wish all of these guys luck and I will always root them on in league, but I am just not jumping for joy that they are gone like many posters on this board.

By the time Cal retires, UK will literally have twice as many NBA players as the next best school and most likely 5+ perennial all-stars, maybe as many as 8 or 9 depending on when he decides to leave.

Right now, Davis, Wall, and Boogie are going to be in there every year for well over a decade, and Bledsoe, Knight are knocking right at that door, and you have reasonable shots with Rondo, Towns, Randle, Nerlens, Kanter, Skal - and then maybe one of Willie, Young, MKG, Briscoe, and then we haven't even touched on recruits going forward into the future.

We could literally have 1/3 of the All Star game when he retires.

Tell me that doesn't benefit the program. It won't last forever, but do you remember what it was like recruiting against UNC in the early-mid 2000s? They were nearly doing what we are now, because they had such a sick NBA alum roster - even over coaching instability, they had great talent coming in

Now obviously, it's in our best interest to get a guy who can recruit in his own right, but you're crazy if you don't think kids growing up watching the NBA and seeing a bunch of stars with UK announced as their alma mater wouldn't make a difference.

 

[dorkmeister]

It appears you need to read and listen to Cal's interviews. He didn't stall or slow the game; he told the guys to get it to KAT.

The old sayings:
"If you fail to plan, you plan to fail". At all times there should be a plan in your head of what to do next and what to expect.

"Plan for the worst, expect the best". If you plan for Wisconsin to come back then you are prepared for the comeback and have a plan in place to overcome their push.

 

[sluggercatfan]

By the time Cal retires, UK will literally have twice as many NBA players as the next best school and most likely 5+ perennial all-stars, maybe as many as 8 or 9 depending on when he decides to leave.

Right now, Davis, Wall, and Boogie are going to be in there every year for well over a decade, and Bledsoe, Knight are knocking right at that door, and you have reasonable shots with Rondo, Towns, Randle, Nerlens, Kanter, Skal - and then maybe one of Willie, Young, MKG, Briscoe, and then we haven't even touched on recruits going forward into the future.

We could literally have 1/3 of the All Star game when he retires.

Tell me that doesn't benefit the program. It won't last forever, but do you remember what it was like recruiting against UNC in the early-mid 2000s? They were nearly doing what we are now, because they had such a sick NBA alum roster - even over coaching instability, they had great talent coming in

Now obviously, it's in our best interest to get a guy who can recruit in his own right, but you're crazy if you don't think kids growing up watching the NBA and seeing a bunch of stars with UK announced as their alma mater wouldn't make a difference.

 

[sluggercatfan]

By the time Cal retires, UK will literally have twice as many NBA players as the next best school and most likely 5+ perennial all-stars, maybe as many as 8 or 9 depending on when he decides to leave.

Right now, Davis, Wall, and Boogie are going to be in there every year for well over a decade, and Bledsoe, Knight are knocking right at that door, and you have reasonable shots with Rondo, Towns, Randle, Nerlens, Kanter, Skal - and then maybe one of Willie, Young, MKG, Briscoe, and then we haven't even touched on recruits going forward into the future.

We could literally have 1/3 of the All Star game when he retires.

Tell me that doesn't benefit the program. It won't last forever, but do you remember what it was like recruiting against UNC in the early-mid 2000s? They were nearly doing what we are now, because they had such a sick NBA alum roster - even over coaching instability, they had great talent coming in

Now obviously, it's in our best interest to get a guy who can recruit in his own right, but you're crazy if you don't think kids growing up watching the NBA and seeing a bunch of stars with UK announced as their alma mater wouldn't make a difference.

That will be great for the players--which I am happy about--but I don't see any mention of any National Championships in there anywhere...Where does that fit into your equation?...Dosen't that matter at all anymore with what the fan base wants to see also?

 

[DickintheHam]

What grade you in bro, 6th? I haven't heard "big whoop" since 2k hit.

Yep, an oldie but goodie, son.

Have a great week, hope it's a good one.

 

[3rex]

By the time Cal retires, UK will literally have twice as many NBA players as the next best school and most likely 5+ perennial all-stars, maybe as many as 8 or 9 depending on when he decides to leave.

Right now, Davis, Wall, and Boogie are going to be in there every year for well over a decade, and Bledsoe, Knight are knocking right at that door, and you have reasonable shots with Rondo, Towns, Randle, Nerlens, Kanter, Skal - and then maybe one of Willie, Young, MKG, Briscoe, and then we haven't even touched on recruits going forward into the future.

We could literally have 1/3 of the All Star game when he retires.

Tell me that doesn't benefit the program. It won't last forever, but do you remember what it was like recruiting against UNC in the early-mid 2000s? They were nearly doing what we are now, because they had such a sick NBA alum roster - even over coaching instability, they had great talent coming in

Now obviously, it's in our best interest to get a guy who can recruit in his own right, but you're crazy if you don't think kids growing up watching the NBA and seeing a bunch of stars with UK announced as their alma mater wouldn't make a difference.

NBA, NBA, NBA, NBA, NBA

Is that all were about anymore? Cause it sure does feel like it much of the time.

 

[barryn2000]

Tell me you don't seriously believe the staff did not watch any tape.

I thoroughly debunked this with links a few weeks ago...some of our fans run on 70% emotion and 30% media rumors.....not a smidgen of research. A simple google search would kill this myth. UK fans are lazy, they just repeat what they hear.

 

[YouKay]

Cal is still covering for the Harrisons. He expected them to win the game. They were bigger and better than Wisconsin's guards. They won the Notre Dame game and he had no reason to think they were not going to win this one. They were playing in their 80th college game and he did not think he needed to call timeouts to tell them what to do. But they didn't get it done. End of story.

 

[3rex]

Lot in common, I believe in the Super Bowl ending & our loss

2 coaches wanting their favorite player to be the hero, at the expense of the greater good of doing what it takes to win the game.

 

[brianpoe]

Cal is still covering for the Harrisons. He expected them to win the game. They were bigger and better than Wisconsin's guards. They won the Notre Dame game and he had no reason to think they were not going to win this one. They were playing in their 80th college game and he did not think he needed to call timeouts to tell them what to do. But they didn't get it done. End of story.

Kay, I think that, if not most of the year, at the end of the season you would prefer Ulis and Booker much more. If Cal was really trying to feed the ball inside my guess is Tyler could have, of course Jackson was bullying him on the defensive end.