Believing the notion that Calipari cheats is like teaching children...

[Son_Of_Saul]

If defies all logic and reason. I don't think I can enter a reasonable discussion with anyone who believes such a thing.

Stephen Zimmerman
Malik Newman
Andrew Wiggins
Tobias Harris
Will Barton
Kyrie Irving
Dajuan Coleman
Tyus Jones
Jahlil Okafor
Stanley Johnson
Kelly Oubre
Justice Winslow
Austin Rivers
Mike Thorne Jr.
James Blackmon Jr.
Caleb Swanigan
Antonio Blakeney
Derryck Thornton
Allonzo Trier
Luke Kennard
Carlton Bragg
Emmanuel Mudiay
Trevor Lacey
Jabari Parker
Aaron Gordon
Shabazz Muhammed
Anthony Bennett
Gary Harris
Brandon Ashley
Kaleb Tarczewski
Isaiah Austin
Bradley Beal
Rakeem Christmas
C.J. Leslie
Harrison Barnes
Terrence Ross


Over 35 kids who have had confirmable offers from Calipari and UK.

 

[Louis_Skunt]

As soon as I hear someone mention that Cal cheats, I immediately question the intelligence. You might as well tell me that Sasquatch exists. If you do your homework, its obvious the man is a good guy and had nothing to do with Rose cheating on his SAT or Camby taking money from an NBA agent. Blaming Cal for any wrongdoings is like blaming a neighbor for a house fire.

 

[caneintally]

As soon as I hear someone mention that Cal cheats, I immediately question the intelligence. You might as well tell me that Sasquatch exists. If you do your homework, its obvious the man is a good guy and had nothing to do with Rose cheating on his SAT or Camby taking money from an NBA agent. Blaming Cal for any wrongdoings is like blaming a neighbor for a house fire.

Big foot at least has tons of evidence backing it up . Cal and Cheating has none .

 

[Pope John Wall II]

Not to argue against your point, but a fair number of those players Kentucky did actually back off of, even if the "we didn't really want him anyway" rhetoric is a running joke around these parts.

 

[ORCAT]

I've heard the Cal cheats remarks from time to time and I used to argue with the person. I've kind of given up on that realizing the person stating that is only going on what they've heard from others and that I can't change their minds as they just believe the rumors and facts only get in the way of their line of thought. Still makes me angry when I hear that stuff though as there is no foundation to it.

 

[lonewildcat]

Hypocrisy is abundant with our rival fan bases.

 

[bookerfan66]

The most hilarious thing is when North Carolina fans say it.

 

[BlueRunner11]

In life there always has to be good and evil, bad guys and good guys, friends and enemies, yin and yang....and if they don't exist within a various culture, society feels the need create them whether its deserved or not. Apply that to college basketball.

 

[mapcatfan]

If defies all logic and reason. I don't think I can enter a reasonable discussion with anyone who believes such a thing.

Stephen Zimmerman
Malik Newman
Andrew Wiggins
Tobias Harris
Will Barton
Kyrie Irving
Dajuan Coleman
Tyus Jones
Jahlil Okafor
Stanley Johnson
Kelly Oubre
Justice Winslow
Austin Rivers
Mike Thorne Jr.
James Blackmon Jr.
Caleb Swanigan
Antonio Blakeney
Derryck Thornton
Allonzo Trier
Luke Kennard
Carlton Bragg
Emmanuel Mudiay
Trevor Lacey
Jabari Parker
Aaron Gordon
Shabazz Muhammed
Anthony Bennett
Gary Harris
Brandon Ashley
Kaleb Tarczewski
Isaiah Austin
Bradley Beal
Rakeem Christmas
C.J. Leslie
Harrison Barnes
Terrence Ross


Over 35 kids who have had confirmable offers from Calipari and UK.

You just have to chalk it up to ignorance. And I mean that in the truest sense of the word.............they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Roe07]

Whenever I come across some idiotic hater that spouts off that BS to me I just tell him to prove it and all I get in return is a blank stare which pretty much ends the conversation.

 

[BlueSince92]

To me it's not an intelligence issue but a moral issue. It's unbelievable to me how many people are willing to be on the wrong side of, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" for the sake of a game.

 

[dezyDeco]

I was on a mock jury once, that dealt with a multi-million dollar medical malpractice lawsuit. I served as the foreman, and had to help everyone try to reach a conclusion, in the limited time that was provided. We watched video tapes from every member of the medical staff and heard from experts in the field.

After viewing one doctor's video testimony, there were a couple jurors that wanted to slap the guilty charge on him right away... because he had "shifty eyes." I thought the evidence seemed to suggest that, if anything, he was the least liable of all the doctors, but I could not get these 2 jurors to look past the "shifty eyes" in order to go back over the facts of the case.

I think about those particular mock jurors every time I meet an idiot that says "Cal is dirty."

 

[jrpross]

It's useless trying to argue the point with people. It's what they prefer to believe over the fact that our coach is just that much better than theirs.

The funny thing is, I can very reluctantly understand how some people could take the Derrick Rose situation and think that maybe a coach with the top five recruit could pull strings to help him cheat on a test, even though it's still pretty ludicrous. But the Camby situation is just baffling. What brainless idiot of a coach would encourage or have anything to do with one of his players taking money from an agent as their team is going on a run to the final four? It doesn't make a drop of sense.

 

[UK90]

Well, I certainly do NOT believe we cheat, but I must say the OP's reasoning really makes no sense.

How the hell does a list of names that rejected us supposedly prove we don't cheat? Coaches who cheat get rejected too, EVERY coach does, regardless of whether clean or dirty. The list proves nothing. You do see some weak logic skills on display around here.

 

[UK_Johnny24]

My buddy who's a UL fan is always saying we pay players and buy them stuff. Its pretty much Louisville and IU fans who say that. Maybe a few loser Dook fans too.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

Well, I certainly do NOT believe we cheat, but I must say the OP's reasoning really makes no sense.

How the hell does a list of names that rejected us supposedly prove we don't cheat? Coaches who cheat get rejected too, EVERY coach does, regardless of whether clean or dirty. The list proves nothing. You do see some weak logic skills on display around here.

Any 4th grader who read his post can deduct what the OP was getting at. Apparently, the 4th grade got the best of you.

 

[UK90]

Any 4th grader who read his post can deduct what the OP was getting at. Apparently, the 4th grade got the best of you.

OK, then please explain it to my 4th grade self. What the was point of the list, and what is its relevance to the cheating issue?

Oh, and ....."deduct?" I believe you mean "deduce." Damn, all that 4th grade learning and still making elementary vocabulary errors.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Well, I certainly do NOT believe we cheat, but I must say the OP's reasoning really makes no sense.

How the hell does a list of names that rejected us supposedly prove we don't cheat? Coaches who cheat get rejected too, EVERY coach does, regardless of whether clean or dirty. The list proves nothing. You do see some weak logic skills on display around here.

Not when the argument from those who make the claim typically stems from the idea that we get our top recruits from an underlying current of systemic cheating - as in, we can't get our top recruits from a pure line of recruiting.

Thus, it would make sense to reject such the argument on the accusers own ground of choice, would it not? It would also make sense that if there was such a system of cheating, some of the 30 to 40 players who rejected Kentucky would have received some sort of financial offer, and perhaps some of them would have made such an offer public.

*Side note, is it possible for you to disagree without coupling your replies with the usual insult-ridden diatribe? Do you feel good offering constantly smug, patronizing rebuttals to people you would likely never speak to like that in real life?

 

[irishcat1965]

Cal doesn't need to cheat at UK. It's that simple. I also don't think he cheated at any other school. It boils down to pure jealousy. Elite players know if they play for Cal and work their asses off, they go to the NBA. If he paid players, do you not think one, JUST ONE, would have come forward because he was disgruntled with playing time etc???? The payday would be huge for that player from any number of media sources. Jealousy. That's it.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

Not when the argument from those who make the claim typically stems from the idea that we get our top recruits from an underlying current of systemic cheating - as in, we can't get our top recruits from a pure line of recruiting.

Thus, it would make sense to reject such the argument on the accusers own ground of choice, would it not? It would also make sense that if there was such a system of cheating, some of the 30 to 40 players who rejected Kentucky would have received some sort of financial offer, and perhaps some of them would have made such an offer public.

*Side note, is it possible for you to disagree without coupling your replies with the usual insult-ridden diatribe? Do you feel good offering constantly smug, patronizing rebuttals to people you would likely never speak to like that in real life?

This UK90 guy is the typical internet tough guy. The one who always got picked last in grade school pick up games and takes his frustrations in life out on message boards under the protection of anonymity.

 

[UK90]

Not when the argument from those who make the claim typically stems from the idea that we get our top recruits from an underlying current of systemic cheating - as in, we can't get our top recruits from a pure line of recruiting.

Thus, it would make sense to reject such the argument on the accusers own ground of choice, would it not? It would also make sense that if there was such a system of cheating, some of the 30 to 40 players who rejected Kentucky would have received some sort of financial offer, and perhaps some of them would have made such an offer public.

No, because their "ground of choice" was never a claim that every single player we'e offered accepts. You're constructing a straw man argument here.

Once again, I absolutely AGREE with your basic premise in this thread, I do NOT believe Cal is a cheater, and I think those who make the claim are usually jealous buffoons. I'm just saying the rationale you employed here to make that point was silly and illogical.

EVERY coach who's EVER coached D1 for a significant period of time can produce a really long list of names that have rejected his offers. The clean ones. The dirty ones. The successful ones. The failures. ALL of them. The fact that you can also produce such a list for Cal is not evidence of damn thing regarding the question of cheating, as every cheating coach has those lists as well. The list was basically just time wasted typing.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

No, because their "ground of choice" was never a claim that every single player we'e offered accepts. You're constructing a straw man argument here.

Once again, I absolutely AGREE with your basic premise in this thread, I do NOT believe Cal is a cheater, and I think those who make the claim are usually jealous buffoons. I'm just saying the rationale you employed here to make that point was silly and illogical.

EVERY coach who's EVER coached D1 for a significant period of time can produce a really long list of names that have rejected his offers. The clean ones. The dirty ones. The successful ones. The failures. ALL of them. The fact that you can also produce such a list for Cal is not evidence of damn thing regarding the question of cheating, as every cheating coach has those lists as well. The list was basically just time wasted typing.

I never said the only argument was based on my OP message. It is one part of it, and it is based on a real argument that real people make - that many of our five star players come here due to cheating. So yes, it is refuting such claims on the same ground.

Speaking of wasting time, you've spent the better part of your 10,000 message board posts chasing around threads like this one, acting like you're the one who has a freshman level idea of what a fallacy is.

That's weird.

 

[billCgmx]

You are wasting your time. People believe what they want to believe. So be it.

 

[Blueisbest]

It's absurd to think that Cal has to resort to cheating in order to be successful

 

[83Cat]

No, because their "ground of choice" was never a claim that every single player we'e offered accepts. You're constructing a straw man argument here.

Once again, I absolutely AGREE with your basic premise in this thread, I do NOT believe Cal is a cheater, and I think those who make the claim are usually jealous buffoons. I'm just saying the rationale you employed here to make that point was silly and illogical.

EVERY coach who's EVER coached D1 for a significant period of time can produce a really long list of names that have rejected his offers. The clean ones. The dirty ones. The successful ones. The failures. ALL of them. The fact that you can also produce such a list for Cal is not evidence of damn thing regarding the question of cheating, as every cheating coach has those lists as well. The list was basically just time wasted typing.

UK 90, what he is illustrating is that in order to make an offer to a player, you'd have to do so during the recruitment process. What good would it do to make one after? So, if they go somewhere else as all of those on the list have, would ONE, EVER speak up and own us? Especially if they are a rival?
Whenever someone tells me that Cal cheats, I ask "really, how? Explain it to me!" They just say that they don't know how, but he is...LOL!

 

[Jkwo]

OK, then please explain it to my 4th grade self. What the was point of the list, and what is its relevance to the cheating issue?

Oh, and ....."deduct?" I believe you mean "deduce." Damn, all that 4th grade learning and still making elementary vocabulary errors.

There are multiple threads to tie together here. One has to do with the programs themselves. The other has to do with the kid.

You have to examine the possibilities of a kid who would be offered by UK (presumably, based on unprecedented recruiting track record) as much or more than any other school which is also dirty.

1. Everything is on the up and up, and UK with Cal is just that attractive.
2. A bunch of kids being offered are going to clean schools instead of taking a substantial number of benefits. So they choose some non-paying school over UK's history + Cal's track record with players + getting paid.

OR they're just so morally upright that they refuse to take him up. When you look at the list of kids that Cal ended up taking (Noel, Knight, Towns, etc) and ones he missed out on/passed on (Selby, a number of the Memphis kids, Chris Walker, etc), this seems to be a strange notion. And then of those morally upright, clean players, nobody in the families of the kid who went elsewhere has whispered a hint about Cal to a Forde or Thamel. The best they have is rival coaches gossiping to HS bball reporters in Chicago.

3. Cal and UK (and again, their facilities, exposure, NBA track record, college success, plus the money) are being outbid. It's not impossible, but suddenly the implications for the other schools are pretty serious. Doesn't vindicate Cal, but this is part of the 3-pronged defense vs rival fans who are running their mouths.

2 and 3 can both be true for different schools, of course.

But I go with Occam's razor here.

 

[kybassfan]

We have to remember, the notion of Calipari cheating is pretty much held by a few groups of people.

First group, those media types looking for hits on a site or article: aka Publicity. Facts regarding Cal's past are simply obstacles they have to ignore in pursuit of this goal. Integrity is a secondary or non-existent consideration. We're not going to change that through any means other than simply ignoring them. Don't listen to them. Don't comment on them. Don't visit their sites. Don't buy their rags. Any acknowledgement simply contributes to the meager publicity they are seeking.

The second group is trash talking morons. Facts are, well, I guess to them there are no facts. They vomit whatever will get a rise out of a Kentucky fan. If one of these guys ever brings this up to me, I generally just offer to write the letter to the NCAA condemning Calipari myself. I write pretty well and could make a case better than them, given . . . . facts. With a few idiots, I've even sat at the keyboard waiting for . . . facts. Its always a good laugh walking away from the gaping mouth fools with the cursor flashing after "To whom it may concern". I HATE trash talkers almost as bad as I HATE Duke, er Puke, err, whatever.

The third group are the misguided souls that actually believe he did something wrong. Generally my line of reasoning to them is simply that he's not been blackballed by the NCAA. I firmly believe that if the NCAA had a case that would withstand due process, Calipari would never coach again in NCAA Div 1. But, he does coach, successfully. Therefore they don't have any admissible evidence. They need that you see. Individuals have rights that member institutions do not. That line of reasoning generally works for anyone worth the time to bother with the discussion. The ones where it doesn't work are generally closet type 2's described above. If I was a coach, I'd donate part of my salary to the Tark memorial fund each year as the one that put the NCAA in its place.

Cal is clean. Sandy Bell would sit him out with the trash if he were not. Don't waste your time discussing such foolish notions with even more foolish people. Cal is clean and that really pisses off a lot of trash talking . . . . But I'm repeating myself.

 

[Poetax]

To me the numbers tell the story, if Cal was cheating someone on that list would have a story to tell, its been 6 years and yet no story has arrived that was not rumor, even from media folks.