Wondering... could we see a 4-guard lineup at times next season ? Especially if we land Murray. We'll be pretty stacked at the guard position but thin upfront, particularly with any foul trouble. Should be fast & fun!
4-guard Lineup
- Thread starter psuweather
- Start date
Mmm....doubtful. How would any of those 4 guards guard a 6'9" power forward? They'd get posted up on all day.
I doubt it. I suppose you could see Ulis, Briscoe, Murray and Matthews at the 4 in a pinch...but more likely you hope 2 of the 3 of Lee, Poy and Skal can stay on the floor at all times. I think Willis would get some run at the 4 before going to a 4 guard line up...but it could happen. It would have to be something to do as a stop gap until the next TV TO until we can bring back in a more traditional big man at the 4 IMO.
Well obviously it would depend on who we're playing. Not all PF's can post well. When they do, they have to worry even more about getting the ball stolen, which guards will naturally try to do if they're posted by a bigger guy.
The match-up could be equalized on the other end because most power forwards can't keep up with players like Matthews or Mulder. Super athletic, very energetic, and both can block shots and steal the ball.
I think we may see it sometimes.
How are we "thin" upfront. We have 4 players that are 6'8 or better to play 2 spots. Skal and Lee could both play the 5. Lee, Poythress, and Willis could all play the 4.
I don't see us playing 4 guards unless we are in a late game situation where we need 3-point shooting.
I don't see us playing 4 guards unless we are in a late game situation where we need 3-point shooting.
Depends, If we were playing against a 4 that struggles inside, and is kinda big and unathletic, I would stick somebody in there that can get him out on the perimeter, slash the ball, and cause some fatigue issues for him as well.
Every other guard besides Hawkins and Ulis would be a candidate for that. Including Murray, if we got him.
I don't see why we couldn't play 4 guards in a pinch, especially if we brought in Murray.
Duke essentially played 4 guards around Okafor all the way to the title. Justice Winslow is the same height as Aaron Harrison and Charles Matthews.
I wouldn't place either of those guys on par with Winslow, but then I wouldn't expect a guy like Matthews to be slotted at the 4 for 25 minutes a night. But 3 or 4 minutes at a pop? Why not.
Duke essentially played 4 guards around Okafor all the way to the title. Justice Winslow is the same height as Aaron Harrison and Charles Matthews.
I wouldn't place either of those guys on par with Winslow, but then I wouldn't expect a guy like Matthews to be slotted at the 4 for 25 minutes a night. But 3 or 4 minutes at a pop? Why not.
IMO there very well might be stretches when UK has to play 4 guards next season if there is an injury to any of the inside players and or foul trouble to inside players dictate that such happen. Other schools have been successful with four guard lineups. I see no reason that it couldn't work at UK if it becomes necessary.
If the NCAA enacts the new rule concerning getting the ball up court where time outs do not reset the 10 second clock. I could see a lot more pressing by both UK and their opponents and maybe some smaller teams on the floor.
Does anyone other than me find it strange that UK could be playing a player at PF smaller than its starting guards last year.
If the NCAA enacts the new rule concerning getting the ball up court where time outs do not reset the 10 second clock. I could see a lot more pressing by both UK and their opponents and maybe some smaller teams on the floor.
Does anyone other than me find it strange that UK could be playing a player at PF smaller than its starting guards last year.
I can't see the need for a four guard lineup on this team, unless we have major foul trouble.
Poythress, Labissiere, and Lee will split the minutes inside.
Poythress will average 25-30 minutes per game.
Labissiere will average 25-30 minutes per game.
Lee will average 20-25 minutes per game.
The rest of the minutes fall to Willis.
Poythress, Labissiere, and Lee will split the minutes inside.
Poythress will average 25-30 minutes per game.
Labissiere will average 25-30 minutes per game.
Lee will average 20-25 minutes per game.
The rest of the minutes fall to Willis.
we aren't thin in terms of men but thin in terms of beef . 4 guys is plenty up front but i wish we would have a dakari type who was thick but Poy and lee are 1st rounders , Skal is the 1st pick and Willis is a damn good player who will show out when given the time . I wouldnt be mad though is Maker or Wynard joined in December though...
we aren't thin in terms of men but thin in terms of beef . 4 guys is plenty up front but i wish we would have a dakari type who was thick but Poy and lee are 1st rounders , Skal is the 1st pick and Willis is a damn good player who will show out when given the time . I wouldnt be mad though is Maker or Wynard joined in December though...
If Cal is concerned with not having much beef inside, I think he would make a major push for Wynyard to at least come in for the second semester, just to give us a strong body (6'10, 250).
One good news is, Skal should be stronger than either Noel or Davis when they got here to UK. If he can gain additional 10-12 lbs, he'll be able to hold his ground.
Go with me on this...
Skal and Poy both pick up 2 fouls in the first 4 minutes of the first half.
How sure are you that Cal will run with Lee and Willis the next 16 minutes?
If we get Murray, I'm going to go ahead and guarantee that we will occasionally see a 4 guard set.
When that happens, would we possibly see a 5 guard line up? Put Hawkins in there, and focus on blitzing offense. Would be hilarious to see. If we can't stop them attack so they can't stop us, and wear them out.
Okay okay, i kidd...but i do want to see it.
IMO it is almost inevitable that there will be times this season that UK will have to have a four guard line up on the floor. I just do not have the confidence in Willis that some on this board have. I hope I am wrong and he pulls a Jorts but I think it is unlikely.
I think teams are going too go right at UKs inside defenders to try to get them in foul trouble and Calipari is not going to play any zone to protect them. IMO if they use the switching man on man they will be in foul trouble every game and you will see a lot of 4 guard line ups on the floor.
I think teams are going too go right at UKs inside defenders to try to get them in foul trouble and Calipari is not going to play any zone to protect them. IMO if they use the switching man on man they will be in foul trouble every game and you will see a lot of 4 guard line ups on the floor.
Not to nitpick (too much) but you said "major" foul trouble. A couple of bigs each picking up a couple of fouls in a half is pretty normal.
Im pretty sure there will be games where Poy and Lee are struggling and Skal gets in foul trouble. 4 guards will happen at times if UK gets Murray.
Just a note on this.
The 5 guys the Warriors had on the floor the most last night were Draymond Green, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and Shaun Livingston (and for the entire playoffs, Iguodala is 5th in minutes instead of Livingston, ahead of Bogut). Bogut, David Lee, and Ezeli combined to play 31 minutes. The Warriors got away with playing what amounted to 1 pg and a bunch of wing players (though Green is an excellent inside/outside hybrid). They didn't get killed on the boards, they didn't get killed in the lane (and that's against a team with Dwight Howard).
It's a little scary to go into next season with so few big bodies, but I also wonder if Cal might end up pushed into a more modern game simply because of the roster he ends up with. Basketball is moving away from the pure power game, where you put a bunch of huge bodies on the court just to clog the lane and dominate the boards. You see it most clearly in the NBA, where the Warriors, as mentioned, have no real big guy in their top 5 in minutes for the playoffs, but you also have the Cavs, Hawks, and Rockets playing relatively small, with their main bench guys being guards. You've also seen it in college, with teams like Notre Dame last year, with Duke (which got better when it took Jefferson out and went with 3 guards and Winslow), with UConn 2014 and UL 2013 being dominated by guards, and so on.
The 5 guys the Warriors had on the floor the most last night were Draymond Green, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and Shaun Livingston (and for the entire playoffs, Iguodala is 5th in minutes instead of Livingston, ahead of Bogut). Bogut, David Lee, and Ezeli combined to play 31 minutes. The Warriors got away with playing what amounted to 1 pg and a bunch of wing players (though Green is an excellent inside/outside hybrid). They didn't get killed on the boards, they didn't get killed in the lane (and that's against a team with Dwight Howard).
It's a little scary to go into next season with so few big bodies, but I also wonder if Cal might end up pushed into a more modern game simply because of the roster he ends up with. Basketball is moving away from the pure power game, where you put a bunch of huge bodies on the court just to clog the lane and dominate the boards. You see it most clearly in the NBA, where the Warriors, as mentioned, have no real big guy in their top 5 in minutes for the playoffs, but you also have the Cavs, Hawks, and Rockets playing relatively small, with their main bench guys being guards. You've also seen it in college, with teams like Notre Dame last year, with Duke (which got better when it took Jefferson out and went with 3 guards and Winslow), with UConn 2014 and UL 2013 being dominated by guards, and so on.
You see it in international play too, and Coach K has successfully brought what is working for him with Team USA down to the college level.
It isn't the only way to play, but it's a style that works. Really, it isn't vastly different from what Cal was doing at Memphis with the DD.
It isn't the only way to play, but it's a style that works. Really, it isn't vastly different from what Cal was doing at Memphis with the DD.
I think we'll see it at times, depending on who we are playing and the foul trouble situation, of course. Cal is going to have to have an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink season of coaching, especially if we don't add anyone else to the roster.
I'm also hoping there are multiple growth spurts over the summer.
I'm also hoping there are multiple growth spurts over the summer.
I doubt it, but it would be cool to see 4 great ball handlers on the court with Skal....#lobcity
And MKG played some 4 in 2012 as well.
Not so much these 2 past classes because in one, we had Julius Randle, and in the other, there was a logjam in the front court.
I described every PF aside from Julius Randle in Cal's system.
Guards are obviously better at this though. Poythress may be too good to keep off the floor though. His defense may very well be unmatched (potentially across all of college basketball), and I get the idea that his slashing ability will be improved.
I think he'll have some better accuracy from the field as well.
I have no problem with assumptions, so I am enjoying this conversation.
So let's keep it going.
First, we are assuming we get Murray.
So if Poy and Skal are both on the bench early, then Willis and Lee come in and get tired. We need to rest one of those guys and play the other at the 5.
So who are the four guards we play?
Ulis- definitely.
Briscoe- definitely.
Murray- definitely.
Matthews- tallest guard, but at 190, he needs to hit the weights.
Mulder- a little shorter, but older and probably stronger.
Might have put a 6'4, 218 lbs. Briscoe at the 4. Ulis at the 1, Murray and Mulder at the 2 and 3, Briscoe at the 4, and Lee at the 5 when we have both Poy and Skal on the bench. All of our wings are in that 6'4-6'5 range, so I guess if we go small, anyone of them can man the 4.
Do we have a Connaughton type player that we could count on to play bigger than they are?
Just wondering about our options if we have to go that route, especially since some on here think we might have to resort to it quite a bit.
So let's keep it going.
First, we are assuming we get Murray.
So if Poy and Skal are both on the bench early, then Willis and Lee come in and get tired. We need to rest one of those guys and play the other at the 5.
So who are the four guards we play?
Ulis- definitely.
Briscoe- definitely.
Murray- definitely.
Matthews- tallest guard, but at 190, he needs to hit the weights.
Mulder- a little shorter, but older and probably stronger.
Might have put a 6'4, 218 lbs. Briscoe at the 4. Ulis at the 1, Murray and Mulder at the 2 and 3, Briscoe at the 4, and Lee at the 5 when we have both Poy and Skal on the bench. All of our wings are in that 6'4-6'5 range, so I guess if we go small, anyone of them can man the 4.
Do we have a Connaughton type player that we could count on to play bigger than they are?
Just wondering about our options if we have to go that route, especially since some on here think we might have to resort to it quite a bit.
You keep hyping Matthews, I hope you are right about him.
I just hope he adds some muscle, if he is going to be used that way.
6'6, 190 is a far cry from 6'8, 230-240 (average PF size in college). Giving up 40-50 lbs. is a bigger deal than the two inches or so of height when we are talking about banging down low.
Winslow was able to handle that spot for Duke because he was a solid 225 lbs. Connaughton played that spot for ND, but was a solid built 215 lbs. Senior.
I'd like to see Matthews at least north of 200 lbs. before he plays any at PF.
I don't really mean to hype him, but I expect him to be a solid contributor. A glue guy.
If you are forced into playing Matthews for 3-4 minute stretches at the 4, I don't think you could rightfully call him a power forward. It would just be a different look, with various pluses and minuses.
Of course this is all speculation, and we may yet add a big that nobody is counting on. Or maybe we never get in foul trouble.
Personally, I would love to see 4 guards on the floor at times. It's fun to watch.
Surely you are not saying that Alex is not athletic are you? He may not be able to dribble to the basket but few players can make plays at the rim like him. I wish you would go back and see some videos of Alex in high school, he was the man. Not sure what happened with his ball handling skills but I saw him play and I thought he would make us forget Mashburn but it hasn't happened yet.
Yeah, I've always liked that type of team as well.
I remember back in 2008, hoping everyone would get healthy and that we would play Bradley, Meeks, Crawford, and Jasper together with Patterson inside. We saw it briefly against UF at Gainesville that year, but Jasper and Meeks just couldn't get healthy enough to keep that lineup on the floor.
I always thought that team could make a deep run if those guys could get on the floor together. Unfortunately, it was not to be.
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